Toolbox Permissions USA

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Re: Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby Thortok2000 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am

I can understand why you'd want the tool for a single segment, but the point is it's pretty much useless even on that single segment.

It doesn't matter how many nodes a segment has. The impact on the server is infinitesimal. As far as making a basemap segment easier to adjust, you have two options. Either clear all geometry entirely and rebuild, or hold D and swipe back and forth over the nodes you want to clear away. Holding D and swiping can clear tons of nodes in a very quick time, allowing you to only adjust the part of the road you were wanting to adjust.
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Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby ottonomy » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:24 am

Thortok2000 wrote:I can understand why you'd want the tool for a single segment, but the point is it's pretty much useless even on that single segment.

It doesn't matter how many nodes a segment has. The impact on the server is infinitesimal. As far as making a basemap segment easier to adjust, you have two options. Either clear all geometry entirely and rebuild, or hold D and swipe back and forth over the nodes you want to clear away. Holding D and swiping can clear tons of nodes in a very quick time, allowing you to only adjust the part of the road you were wanting to adjust.

Many basemap roads have very complicated curves, but are misaligned with the map. Simplifying a segment before attempting to realign it can be a great time saver. Often, the geo-nodes are so close together that without simplification, you must operate at such a high zoom to carefully delete them that there's no context with the surrounding area. Swiping while holding D doesn't work when what you want is to delete say three out of every four nodes, but leave the rest for manual adjustment.

I'd have no issue at all with the simplification tool being allowed again, but only on a single-selected-segment basis... IF the tool for removing unnecessary junctions was also restored to some tiny fragment of its former usefulness...
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Re: Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby Thortok2000 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:54 pm

@ottonomy -

Sounds like a better tool would be to 'move entire segment' keeping its geometry but realigning it somewhere else, possibly with a rotation feature as well.

However, I think the easiest way to do it would be to first move the '1 out of every 4' or so nodes to their new positions, and then swipe-delete the rest that got left behind. If you did the swipe-delete first, you might wind up removing the ones you want to keep, true, so just do the swipe-delete after.

While I don't think there's much harm in allowing simseg on a single segment at a time, I still don't see that there's that much use, either. It's really not that much time saved, if any at all.
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Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby ottonomy » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:18 pm

@Thortok2000, I kinda like your idea of moving 1 out of 4 nodes first, and then D swiping the rest! But I can tell you that there are a few more great uses for simseg, and I can attest to their usefulness because [cough] there are standalone versions of simseg out there which do the job nicely...

The kinds of alignment I'm talking about aren't consistent enough to shift or rotate an entire segment, but that's an interesting concept.

Not that much time saved? Methinks you're not editing in the same places I am ;-)
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Re: Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby doctorkb » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:16 am

I'm going to chime in here, from a data management standpoint.

I find the argument that "It doesn't matter how many nodes a segment has. The impact on the server is infinitesimal" to be both short-sighted and incorrect when we're dealing with the number of segments in the Waze database.

Let's say, for arguments sake, that every segment has, on average, one extra geonode. That's an extra 10 bytes (at least - two floats, one per lat, one per long, and then an extra 2 bytes for sequence) per segment. In reality it's probably more than that, but this will make calculations easier.

Sure, that seems small. And it is. Until you multiply it out by a billion (my wild-assed guess at number of segments in North America). Now we're using an extra 10 gigabytes of storage. Still pretty small, until you factor in the added computational requirement for the extra billion data points. The map tile update will only get more and more complex as more data types (places, etc.) start getting included.

If we could remove the extra overhead that is doing *nothing* for the map, that will improve the tile update performance. This may mean our tiles get updated with more frequency, or we get a full-rebuild more often.

At the end of the day, with the newfound throttling system keeping the edits from truly "counting", the simplification approach is not a bad one.

Of course, what the US decides to do doesn't really affect me -- I just find the reasoning you're using flawed.
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Re: Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby qwaletee » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:39 am

doctorkb,

Isn't that not primarily our worry, but Waze's?
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Re: Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby doctorkb » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:34 pm

You could say exactly that about the entire map editing process.

It's a cop-out.
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Re: Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby doctorkb » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:36 pm

If you want a reason that really impacts you, then let's say the more geonodes on the screen, the more intensive it is for TB or WMECH to provide highlights in the editor.
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Re: Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby qwaletee » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:51 am

doctorkb wrote:If you want a reason that really impacts you, then let's say the more geonodes on the screen, the more intensive it is for TB or WMECH to provide highlights in the editor.


I mention this one specifically, because I remember a thread where someone had spoken to Dev, and claimed that Waze said not to worry about it.
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Re: Toolbox Permissions USA

Postby taco909 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:19 am

qwaletee wrote:
doctorkb wrote:If you want a reason that really impacts you, then let's say the more geonodes on the screen, the more intensive it is for TB or WMECH to provide highlights in the editor.


I mention this one specifically, because I remember a thread where someone had spoken to Dev, and claimed that Waze said not to worry about it.

And, TO THEM, it may not matter.
The datapoint for the geonode must be stored on the server, so it absolutely takes up space, but that is not an impact on the efficiency of the server (in any significant way).
Rendering, once the tiles have been loaded, they are loaded. "Smoothing" eliminates the majority of geonodes from the app. Again, no significant impact on operation.
Routing, the routing server is simply looking at transit speed/time from endpoint to endpoint as well as junction entry/exit. Geonodes have ZERO impact on the routing server efficiency. The only impact is forced turn instructions produced using micro-doglegs.


*BUT*

The Devs are not editors. Oh, some may do some editing, but I can't imagine one being a very active editor in their spare time when they already spend 10-12 hours a day actually working for Waze.
So no... Geonodes have no impact from a typical Dev's perspective, but that doesn't mean that they have no impact at all.
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