Brainstorming AM-management

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Brainstorming AM-management

Postby petervdveen » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:08 pm

As champs on this moment we are brainstorming how to handle the management of AM's better in the future.
Right now, it really takes a lot of time to manage everything correct, that's why a new system is needed.
Since some time we do the AM management.
This gives us more inside information about editors and what there doing.
But, it also takes a lot more time. More then I toughed before.

So now we are brainstorming for a new system to work with. Therefore I would like to ask you, the 'normal editor', about your opinion.
This is a brainstorm topic. Nothing is decided yet. Everything is still possible, so please no big discussion about little points, just post everything that comes up your mind. Everything is useful.

I would describe the idea like this:
Less locking, more communication.

This is what we came up with yesterday:
We would like to have a lot small AM-areas spread over the country wit h lv3 editors.
Those editors can lock roads that are different from the aerials.

Above this layer of AM-areas we would like to have a group of LV-4 editors with each one a bigger AM-area.
They will be the coaches of the lv-3 editors in their area.
The lv-4 editors can lock the minor and major highways when necessary.

Then we have above that the CM's.
They can lock the freeways and are the coaches of lv-4's


Please, your reaction! :D
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Re: Brainstorming AM-management

Postby steveningelbrecht » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:51 pm

i think we definitely need a new policy about locking segments and also need to have a frame for the coming boom of Belgian Wazers and map editors... :-)

About the locking :
it's to bad we need to focus on the level of the editor in relation to the type of segment and need to lock.
In a ideal situation, every editor should be able to lock a segment on any kind of level, up to the level he has. This way, for example, a level 5 could lock a certain segment on level 3, so AM's of level 3 could unlock or work the segment without the need of requesting an unlock.
The situation now, about requesting unlocks is something like all or nothing, while "black or white" or the most uncommon colours... ;-)

The policy about a type of segment linking to a lvl 3, 4 or 5 (in case of locking) in combination of the coaching, seems ok to me.
Up till today, i don't think we already have enough editors who keep track of the forum and/or wiki, or am i wrong?
I agree we need to have a policy first, so we don't need to make one, once we have a much bigger community, but i haven't had much contact with other belgians over here... so that is also an important thing, i think?!

What do other editors think?
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Re: Brainstorming AM-management

Postby sirKitKat » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:33 pm

I think the main problem is situated in the WME. These are 2 features I think should improve the editor:

chose a lower level lock
Instead of a checkbox, there should be a drop down menu with the level of lock you want to place on it, or a row of radiobuttons (none; 1; 2; 3; ...) (like steveningelbrecht mentions)

review system for locked segments
There should be review system that allow lower level users can make a set of edits on a higher locked segment. The set of edits can leave a map-error-like-pin for the higher map editors to review.
Something like this:
sirKitKat (level 3) is editing some roads in his neighbourhood. One of the roads is a N## road and is locked by steveningelbrecht (level 5). On this N## road there are some turning ristrictions not set correctly and sirKitKat (3) set them right, removes some extra waypoints and adds housenumbers to the segment. So far nothing special. When sirKitKat (3) pushes on save, the road in the map editor does not change but instead there is a marker (like the one reported trough the client). When a level 5 spots the mark, he can click on it, and the changes that sirKitKat (3) made are highlighted from the current situation. Now the level 5 can accept these changes or reject them. He should be able to give feedback to sirKitKat why he accepts or rejects the changes.
Advantage:
  • Higher level editors spend less time unlocking and locking roads thus can do more in the same time
  • More low level editors can try to improve the map without messing it all up
  • The feedback feature would be a great tool to mentor experienced level editors
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Re: Brainstorming AM-management

Postby bgoffa » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:34 am

Being a "normal editor", I personally do not have the experience on editing being a heavy workload. Assuming the previous messages, the workload is prodominantly on the level of (un)locking. Or are there other topics that could offer increased efficiency and reduced time consumption?
Isn't there a more general policy, internationally? Or is it a Benelux issue only?
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Re: Brainstorming AM-management

Postby steveningelbrecht » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:52 pm

sirKitKat wrote:review system for locked segments
There should be review system that allow lower level users can make a set of edits on a higher locked segment. The set of edits can leave a map-error-like-pin for the higher map editors to review.
Something like this:
sirKitKat (level 3) is editing some roads in his neighbourhood. One of the roads is a N## road and is locked by steveningelbrecht (level 5). On this N## road there are some turning ristrictions not set correctly and sirKitKat (3) set them right, removes some extra waypoints and adds housenumbers to the segment. So far nothing special. When sirKitKat (3) pushes on save, the road in the map editor does not change but instead there is a marker (like the one reported trough the client). When a level 5 spots the mark, he can click on it, and the changes that sirKitKat (3) made are highlighted from the current situation. Now the level 5 can accept these changes or reject them. He should be able to give feedback to sirKitKat why he accepts or rejects the changes.


This would be a great thing, that could be used even more widely. Instead of a simple instruction video for beginners, there could be a totally leveled system of where every editor could be 'revised'... of course, depending on what kind of segments he edited. It speeks for itselfs that a level 3 wouldn't need as much 'revisioning', as a level 1 or 2, or like a level 4 by level 5...

The contra for this is, i think, there is pretty much work to program it... While the first step could be the bullet or dropdown system for locking segments... I guess this is only some adjustment for the WME interface, and an extra parameter per segment in the DB.
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Re: Brainstorming AM-management

Postby kriekenbuik » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:04 pm

I'm an areamanager.
Isn't it possible to get all the rights in your own area for changing everything and put roadworks on it.
I see an areamanager as a person who is responsible for his area and he should get full access.
How are they doing it in other countries?
For example:
A countrymanager can change everything in belgium. A level 4 is 'boss" in his Province of East-Flanders (for example) and a province has several areamanager. Than I don't have a level 3 when I'm changing something in another area.
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Brainstorming AM-management

Postby maantje76 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:26 pm

In the past am's had full access. Because of the the huge amount of problems that were caused by unexperienced editors, waze had decided to change that system a while ago. After the change, they did an unlock for all less important roadtypes, so AM's aren't completely locked out.

The change was a well considered decission. They had to do this to protect the valuable data. Every week there were problems, even on freeways. At the moment we have more frequent map updates. In the past those took several months sometimes. You can imagine what kind of problems the result was.

Then there wasn't any control on am areas. Almost all areas were approved. From all the old areas that were approved before the current system, 90% doesn't visit forums, don't know anything about the wiki, so don't know the rules. It's very hard to contact them, if it's possible, etc...

The result in countries that are almost done or where a big part us done, is more locks. Locks are 'growing' with you, including the edits from the past.

Giving full rights in your area isn't possible anymore. We did discuss thus several times. It's a technical issue.

Where I personally are thinking about is updating an editors editing level on request of his mentor, not based on amount of edits. Some of you probably deserve a higher level allready. There are also situations where editors get a higher level based on the amount of edits, but doesn't know much about editting. Some of them are even cheating. We're happy this isn't happening in Belgium on large scale, but in other countries this resulted also in big problems...

Waze did promised us, they will implement a locking feature where a higher level editor can lock at a lower rank. That will clear a lot of problems I guess....

But lets go on with brainstorming....
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Re: Brainstorming AM-management

Postby sirKitKat » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:42 pm

An other great feature would be adding comments/threads like/wiki style like to the waze map editor or to junctions.

This would help in situations that, in real life, has undergone construction/modification/change of turn restrictions that are not visible in areal photo's or even streetview.

Also an editor could explain why he did a strange modification.

Example:
In the case of a barrier on a road, a tractor filter (aka 'carter rammer'), pole in the middle of the road The solution I use is adding a junction-point at the place of the obstacle and disallow all turns. This prevents the street for being used for go trough traffic in routing but the routing will sends you to the correct side of the barrier if your destination is on that road.

To a experienced editor who come across such a point, it looks like an unnecessary junction-point and there is a change he will remove it or allow all turns on it. Result: a step back in improving the map.
Solution, an exclamation mark on the map next to the junction with an explanation why that junction is there in its place.
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Re: Brainstorming AM-management

Postby sirKitKat » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:44 pm

maantje76 wrote:Where I personally are thinking about is updating an editors editing level on request of his mentor, not based on amount of edits. Some of you probably deserve a higher level allready.


I like your thinking
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Re: Brainstorming AM-management

Postby sirKitKat » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:28 am

An other point I noticed:
I moved in November from the region of Leuven (working in Hasselt) to the region of Deinze (working in Gent).
In the region of Leuven, I asked and got AM right over several areas, (Brussel, Leuven, Lummen, Hasselt, ...) mainly because I saw huge gaps in the map info I could fill and I needed a higher level to unlock things.

In the mean time, I made enough map edits to reach level 3. Combine this with the 4 mile action radius and different drives in the area around Deinze and Gent and I can edit most of the small roads in the large area around my house/work.
I could ask AM right to the area home/work but up till now I didn't ask AM because it is absolute in my current situation.

Summery: If you are a level 3 editor, obtaining the status of AM does not add any value to map editing itself.
The only use I see in AM is your name comes on the map and you can use it to edit areas that are not in your reach. (If it is not in reach for you, how can you exactly know the local situation)
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