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Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:32 pm
by Fredo-p
If anything, one could just include both "Statewide/Countrywide"

Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:33 pm
by kentsmith9
pumrum wrote:I also think the area managers table should be tweaked to emphasize those who are dedicated to a specific state, so that you have clearly defined, in the following order:

1) The Regional Coordinator(s)
2) The State Manager(s)
3) Other editors, including CMs, in order of rank

Since there are often many Rank 5 and 6 editors in a state that are not acting as the State Manager and are not Country Managers, this would prevent the RC and SM role from getting "lost in the fray" and also prevent the CMs who work in the area from being inundated with tasks that the SM should be handling. I can mock up the CT page with what I think might look good if you'd like.

Are we talking about the old or new table? The new one has rank 3-5 editors who are not State Managers in the third section. The first section is Country Managers (rank 5-6 in the US) who can touch anything in the state. The second section is for State Managers who are clearly dedicated to the state. Aside from people putting themselves in the wrong section, what am I missing?

Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:31 pm
by Fredo-p
I think screenshots would help to ensure we are talking about the same thing. ;-)

Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:47 pm
by qwaletee
If I understand pumrum correctly, I think he is saying there are many high rank editors who do som editing in the state, and might list themselves there, but are not the "go to" people for the state (perhaps they are more dedicated to another region, with an additional state that they are only somewhat active in and therefore are listed in the table).

I would argue that rather than a structural change, we should have a policy that if you don't want to be hands on and a key contact for the state, just don't list yourself in the table. If you list yourself in the table, then be prepared to support the state in a hands-on manner, and field "calls" from other editors regarding that state. If that leads to a dearth of high rank volunteers listed for the state, the RC or SM can work the network to find more backup.

kentsmith9 wrote:
pumrum wrote:I also think the area managers table should be tweaked to emphasize those who are dedicated to a specific state, so that you have clearly defined, in the following order:

1) The Regional Coordinator(s)
2) The State Manager(s)
3) Other editors, including CMs, in order of rank

Since there are often many Rank 5 and 6 editors in a state that are not acting as the State Manager and are not Country Managers, this would prevent the RC and SM role from getting "lost in the fray" and also prevent the CMs who work in the area from being inundated with tasks that the SM should be handling. I can mock up the CT page with what I think might look good if you'd like.

Are we talking about the old or new table? The new one has rank 3-5 editors who are not State Managers in the third section. The first section is Country Managers (rank 5-6 in the US) who can touch anything in the state. The second section is for State Managers who are clearly dedicated to the state. Aside from people putting themselves in the wrong section, what am I missing?

Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:22 pm
by kentsmith9
I just now realized I was mixing the new community role of State Manager with an editor who has statewide editing rights. These are two separate roles and I think we can address it with the current AM table structure.

Maybe the community role for the state should be renamed to State Coordinator to associate more with the RC as a community role. Then we can still have editors who just edit, but their area is as big as the state (especially in small states).

Then since there is only one (or two) max regional coordinators, but State Coordinators can be multiple for one state, I would hesitate to place them in the table heading like we do for the RC.

Therefore I propose we create a small badge icon like I have for the other roles (champ, mentor, RC) for the State Coordinators(s) and have them add themselves to the current State Manager section with that badge. Then other Area Managers who have areas that cover the state can also appear in the State Manager area, but without the coordinator badge.

I think this would reduce confusion because each role would have a distinct name where people who can:
* edit an area (Area Manager)
* edit an area that covers the state (State Manager)
* edit anywhere in the country (Country Manager)
and
* manage a region (Regional Coordinator)
* manage a state (State Coordinator)

Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:53 am
by orbitc
kentsmith9 wrote:I just now realized I was mixing the new community role of State Manager with an editor who has statewide editing rights. These are two separate roles and I think we can address it with the current AM table structure.

Maybe the community role for the state should be renamed to State Coordinator to associate more with the RC as a community role. Then we can still have editors who just edit, but their area is as big as the state (especially in small states).

Then since there is only one (or two) max regional coordinators, but State Coordinators can be multiple for one state, I would hesitate to place them in the table heading like we do for the RC.

Therefore I propose we create a small badge icon like I have for the other roles (champ, mentor, RC) for the State Coordinators(s) and have them add themselves to the current State Manager section with that badge. Then other Area Managers who have areas that cover the state can also appear in the State Manager area, but without the coordinator badge.

I think this would reduce confusion because each role would have a distinct name where people who can:
* edit an area (Area Manager)
* edit an area that covers the state (State Manager)
* edit anywhere in the country (Country Manager)
and
* manage a region (Regional Coordinator)
* manage a state (State Coordinator)

Kent,
SM is State Manager who manages state and deals with the issues related to map, editors and more as I break it down here. SMs are editors first who actively edit but have great community role. SMs are NOT coordinating editors by giving area or increasing editing rank or blocking editors etc. Calling it to SC will cause bigger confusion with the RCs. We might have SMs that might cover 2 states, then what?
Let's keep SM role as implemented and educate those few who got confuse.

Based on the AM sheet we didn't have any editors with all state editing rights until very recently. I started to give larger AM areas and/or the whole state unofficially. Those who edited in the whole state showed great community involvement that inspired SM role. SM is a brand new role. Nothing to do with AM or RC or anything else. SM is an editing role first and does a lot of things that related to editing and help RCs.

An area manager can get big area or even bigger area but they can still be an area manager. Just because they get an area or the whole state should not grant them SM position automatically. Almost all editors in RI could get the entire state of RI. That doesn't make them SM. SM is editing and community role. They are actually editing and dealing with issues that related to editing and editor. Unless you are granted the SM badge (which we're still waiting for Waze) you are not to put that in your signature. You are still an area manager even if you are editing as large as a state. If you like to take on the duties of SM role that posted here then you need ask your Champ/RC or RC will recognize it and offer that to you.

Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:29 am
by kentsmith9
When I first read the SM role, it appeared to be much more than an editor. If you are convinced otherwise, I will accept and move on.

Then to answer the original question, do we have editors who will have an area as large as the whole state, but will not be an official State Manager? Or will anyone given a state be automatically a State Manager?

Then what about editors who move over 500K edits? They go from an area manager to a Country Manager today. Will that change to make the State Manager step before the Country Manager step?

Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:03 am
by orbitc
kentsmith9 wrote:Then to answer the original question, do we have editors who will have an area as large as the whole state, but will not be an official State Manager?

If an editor who edits well can ask for expansion. RCs review his or her area and approve or deny based on the area. As editor's area gets bigger, RC or champ will recognise the editor's growth and ask if he or she wants to get SM role.


kentsmith9 wrote:Or will anyone given a state be automatically a State Manager?

No.


kentsmith9 wrote: Then what about editors who move over 500K edits? They go from an area manager to a Country Manager today. Will that change to make the State Manager step before the Country Manager step?

As Waze puts it, CM is just an editing role and that the editor doesn't need to be involved in any kind of community activity. Yet, we require them (editors who move over 500K edits) to go thru approval process by the US Champs. I'd say no based on Waze's definition of CM.
My personal opinion, I would like to see editors who surpass 250K edits to start thinking of community and start doing things for the community besides editing. One of the requirements I would put is to become a mentor formally or informally.

Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:32 am
by kentsmith9
orbitc wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote: Then what about editors who move over 500K edits? They go from an area manager to a Country Manager today. Will that change to make the State Manager step before the Country Manager step?

As Waze puts it, CM is just an editing role and that the editor doesn't need to be involved in any kind of community activity. Yet, we require them (editors who move over 500K edits) to go thru approval process by the US Champs. I'd say no based on Waze's definition of CM.
My personal opinion, I would like to see editors who surpass 250K edits to start thinking of community and start doing things for the community besides editing. One of the requirements I would put is to become a mentor formally or informally.

Do I hear you saying that there will be changes to the steps from AM to CM requiring a step to SM first? If not then again I say the names do not make sense. You cannot have an AM move to CM status if they are not qualified to be a SM. If Waze says CM is just an editor, then we must push back because they have too much power with the entire United States and a very high Rank.

Maybe in other countries without self-management it would be OK, but here in the US IMHO it would not make any sense.

Re: [New Template] State Template suite

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:09 am
by sketch
CM is an editing role and it is one with a lot of power, as Kent said, and with that, a lot of responsibility. I won't say a CM should be especially involved in the community, but there needs to be a level of involvement that shows that the user is able to stay on top of new rules and modified guidance.

I do agree that if the SM community role is going to be significantly higher than that of CM, then SC would be a better name. Coordinating editors, not just managing the map.