Use of PLR vs Private Rd

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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby DwarfLord » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:47 pm

We seem to be converging...can anyone offer specific examples of (1) a restricted road that does NOT access a parking lot but should nevertheless be PLR type; and (2) a parking lot, gated or otherwise, that should NOT get PLRs but rather PRs?

I'm having a hard time imagining situations where the decision tree "if parking lot, then PLR, else PR" would fail to map reasonably for restricted roads.
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:50 pm

As there have been no examples suggested of parking-lot access roads that should be PR instead of PLR, shotguns notwithstanding, I'd like to suggest a change in wording for the Road Types (USA) article. I suggest changing
existing guidance wrote:Parking Lot road type should be used inside Apartment Complexes, Trailer Parks, Schools, and Universities unless it meets the criteria for Private Road found in the next section below.

to
proposed guidance wrote:Parking Lot Roads should be used for access to multi-space parking areas, regardless of gating or other restrictions. This includes access roads found in apartment complexes and trailer parks. It does not include suburban or rural residential driveways expected to serve only a handful of people, which (if compliant with Driveways guidance) should be marked as Private Road.

Parking Lot roads may also be used to prohibit Waze from routing through traffic on city alleys and on roads through schools and universities, unless such streets meet the criteria for Private Road.
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:15 am

I see a lot of talk about a Private Road requiring a physical barrier to access. There are plenty of private roads out there that just have a sign or two that say "Private Road - No Trespassing" (or similar), but are otherwise wide open. The same with many corporate & college campuses, as well as some (senior) living communities - you can't legally use these roads as a short cut, so Waze should never route you through them. These roads should be private roads that lead to Parking Lot Roads.
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby PesachZ » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:16 am

AndyPoms wrote:I see a lot of talk about a Private Road requiring a physical barrier to access. There are plenty of private roads out there that just have a sign or two that say "Private Road - No Trespassing" (or similar), but are otherwise wide open. The same with many corporate & college campuses, as well as some (senior) living communities - you can't legally use these roads as a short cut, so Waze should never route you through them. These roads should be private roads that lead to Parking Lot Roads.

However whether they are PLR or Private in waze, they will be handle the same in routing. Waze will not route a shortcut through any of these setups even if they are PLR.

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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:00 am

Yes, but as I previous said in this thread
AndyPoms wrote:I like to think of it like this - A Private Road can lead to a Parking Lot, but a Parking Lot can't lead to a Private Road.

Think of a corporate campus with a loop road & several parking lots. Waze should not route you through the lots, but around the loop to the lot you need. If you are already in a lot, Waze should give you the best exit (you don't want to go out the west exit of a lot just to drive on the loop road past the east exit of the same lot).


Consider the attached image where Grey = PLR, Orange = Private, Red = Major Hwy & Yellow - Minor Hwy, Letters in Black Circles = Origins or Destinations, and Numbers in Green Diamonds = Intersections.
CampusLoop.png
(16.59 KiB) Downloaded 789 times
  • A -> B Should NOT route through the campus (1 -2 - 3 - 4- 5), it needs to route around (1-10-11-12 -and almost to 5)
  • A -> D Should route into campus (1 - 2 - 3 - 4)
  • D -> F Should stay on campus (4 - 3 - 6 - 7 - 8)
  • E -> F Should stay on campus, but depending on proximity & direction, should use either exit of the lot ([2 - 3 - ] 6 - 7 - 8).
  • G -> F Should stay on the main campus road & not cut through the parking lot (E) on the corner. Use (1- 2 - 3 - 6 - 7 - 8) and NOT (1 - 2 - 6 - 7 - 8)
  • E -> A Simple exit from campus, (2 - 1). You don't want to use exit 6 in this case because it's just going to loop you past exit 2.
  • E -> C Another simple exit from campus, (6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 11 & head towards 12). You don't want to use exit 2 from the lot in this case because it's just going to loop you past exit 6.
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby voludu2 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:36 am

This example seems like a private installation.

With short private entrance segments, the intereior campus roads could be of type street, to distinguish them from parking lot roads.

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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:04 pm

voludu2 wrote:This example seems like a private installation.

With short private entrance segments, the intereior campus roads could be of type street, to distinguish them from parking lot roads.
It's not a large installation, there are no rings of security, just a main road through the campus & parking lots off of that road. There is no reason to complicate this very simple example in that manner.
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby DwarfLord » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:02 pm

Is the concern with the second of the two paragraphs I offered, that is, with this?
DwarfLord wrote:Parking Lot Roads may also be used to prohibit Waze from routing through traffic on city alleys and on roads through schools and universities, unless such streets meet the criteria for Private Road.

A simple ungated campus -- with at least one corner parking lot accessed from both sides -- does look like a good case for a PR to prevent through traffic, using PLRs only for the parking lots. Doing so prevents routing through the corner lots.

If we strike the second paragraph, however, where does that leave us with city alleys? In some regions, public alleys may be set to PLR to prohibit through traffic and suppress jam indications. However, it is easy to imagine a network of alleys with a corner parking lot accessed from more than one alley. PR seems a better choice for the alleys under these conditions. But does that mean the national guidance should encourage PR for alleys, even though they are fully public?
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby voludu2 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:46 pm

Public alleys with their own parking lots sounds like a special case, an exception to the general rule. We're building with the blocks we find in the box.

We are only using these types (private road, parking lot road) because we don't have a road type of
"smaller than ordinary street; may be one way or two way but barely has room for one car to get through, let alone for two cars to pass each other and if you try to use this as a shortcut, you might get stuck behind a delivery truck for 20 minutes and be unable to reverse out because of the drivers behind you who tried the same trick. Really not meant as a through road"

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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby DwarfLord » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:15 pm

That all makes sense. As a matter of practice, I simply like to craft guidance that requires the fewest exceptions. We are currently headed towards:

- If no through traffic, PLR
-- UNLESS private, in which case PR
--- UNLESS for parking or jam suppression, in which case PLR
---- UNLESS a "driveway", in which case PR

I would rather guidance was more like:

- If no through traffic, PR
-- UNLESS for parking or jam suppression, in which case PLR
--- UNLESS a "driveway", in which case PR.


(Earlier I wanted something even simpler, which was...

- If no through traffic, PR
-- UNLESS for parking/driveway/jam suppression, in which case PLR

...but that's when the rednecks and shotguns showed up.)
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