Use of PLR vs Private Rd

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Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby top_gun_de » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:04 pm

In Germany, a Private Road is defined as a road that is not open to general traffic for trespassing, instead it is limited to people with a legitimate purpose in the area that is covered by the Private Road. I.e. a DHL-driver can drive there to deliver a parcel in the private road, but he may not trespass it as a shortcut to a destination behind the PLR.

This will vary from country to country and needs to be adapted to the current law.

A PLR, on the other hand, is used for parking lots (including freeway parking lots) and for roads on private places, i.e. gas stations.

Imho each country needs its own definition to separate between private roads and parking lots, I do not think anyone can come up with a universally matching definition.

Best regards,

Detlev
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby PesachZ » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:20 pm

top_gun_de wrote:In Germany, a PLR is defined as a road that is not open to general traffic for trespassing, instead it is limited to people with a legitimate purpose in the area that is covered by the PLR. I.e. a DHL-driver can drive there to deliver a parcel in the private road, but he may not trespass it as a shortcut to a destination behind the PLR.

This will vary from country to country and needs to be adapted to the current law.

A PLR, on the other hand, is used for parking lots (including freeway parking lots) and for roads on private places, i.e. gas stations.

Imho each country needs its own definition to separate between private roads and parking lots, I do not think anyone can come up with a universally matching definition.

Best regards,

Detlev

You put PLR on both rules, send like a typo. Which one did you mean as PLR vs private?

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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby top_gun_de » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:26 pm

Thx, I corrected my original post :)
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby ottonomy » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:35 pm

voludu2 wrote:"smaller than ordinary street; may be one way or two way but barely has room for one car to get through, let alone for two cars to pass each other and if you try to use this as a shortcut, you might get stuck behind a delivery truck for 20 minutes and be unable to reverse out because of the drivers behind you who tried the same trick. Really not meant as a through road"

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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby ottonomy » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:16 pm

It has been pointed out earlier in this thread that we are still waiting to see exactly what the rendering differences will be between PLR and Private once App 4.0 is released. To me, much of this discussion is quite interesting, but could prove ultimately moot if either PLR or Private ends up looking wholly inappropriate in the app for its nominal purpose.

What if Private ends up looking just like Street, and PLR is skinny and faded? Would certain driveways to appear as real streets in the app, but other neighboring ones to look less so? What if the very ones we'd wish to appear less inviting were the very ones which would appear more so, given our guidance? This might work out well in a situation like a college, transitioning in appearance from bold/wide to light/skinny where the campus roads transition to parking lots, but some of our distinctions between public and private might work in the opposite visual way from our intent.

If these two road types are functionally identical in terms of routing penalties, and our primary purpose in using them is to restrict through-routing where appropriate, shouldn't our guidance ignore the semantics of the names of these road types, and operate on the principal that either of them may be used where such routing control is necessary, but that the choice should be informed by the expected appearance of such a road to the end user?

If there is a private gated condominium complex next to a non-gated apartment complex, and they both have roads of otherwise identical appearance, we don't want Waze routing through either of them. Why should their roads look different from each other in the app?

I'm not suggesting that this whole conversation is pointless. These distinctions of usage need to be debated. But is now the time? Will we come to decisions here, teach them to thousands of editors out there, and then regret the guidance when the app makes one part or another of it seem wrong? Maybe Waze will leave these road types looking the way they do, but I'd rather not count on that.
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby PesachZ » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:06 am

I imagine they will look in 4.0 as they look now in the new livemap

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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:39 am

ottonomy wrote:...much of this discussion...could prove ultimately moot if either PLR or Private ends up looking wholly inappropriate in the app for its nominal purpose.

It does seem a stretch to assume that the Private Road type will be immediately obvious to app users as literally indicating a physically or legally private road. As opposed to a thin little less-than-a-street road that may or may not be private.

In fact, to interpret Waze's "Private Road" type literally is not consistent with current editing practice. We don't interpret "Highway", "Walking Trail", or "Pedestrian Boardwalk" literally, so I'm not sure why the concern about interpreting "Private Road" literally as opposed to focusing on its routing behavior.

Anyway I agree it is hard to move forward confidently with this until we know for sure how PR and PLR will present in Version 4 of the app.
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby sketch » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:56 am

DwarfLord wrote:In fact, to interpret Waze's "Private Road" type literally is not consistent with current editing practice. We don't interpret "Highway", "Walking Trail", or "Pedestrian Boardwalk" literally, so I'm not sure why the concern about interpreting "Private Road" literally as opposed to focusing on its routing behavior.

"Highway", "Walking Trail", and "Pedestrian Boardwalk" all have routing behaviors different than their plain meanings, however nuanced. The only things differentiating Private Road from Parking Lot Road are jam highlighting and livemap appearance. It's not quite the same situation.
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:29 pm

Our wiki guidance as of this post does not mention signage as being an alternative to a physical gate or guard. I thought we had agreed that signage was sufficient to equate to a gate. Can we revisit this please?
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Re: Use of PLR vs Private Rd

Postby PesachZ » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:32 pm

Sounds good this thread has been dormant so long we may need a new thread in the us wiki forum linking to this for reference.

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