[New Page] Service Roads  Topic is solved

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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby abc1357 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:28 pm

subs5 wrote:No I figure the it best to defer to the current FC guidance, which is satisfactory.
We have Service Roads that are officially minor Highways in Northern VA. So the Street, Primary Street, and minor Highways are all legitimate FC. Figure somewhere there might be a MH Service Road, so will stay out of that for now.


Does it make sense to distinguish between a service road and a frontage road in this particular instance? I feel that a frontage road is specifically used for routing to/from an address on that frontage road and should not be used for through routing. From the BDP Wiki, it states five criteria must all be met to trigger the detour evaluation. One of the criteria is Road Type Discontinuity. If we kept the frontage road the same FC Type as the Main road, this would not trigger BDP and could possibly allow a route through the frontage road, especially if the main road is congested. Therefore, my recommendation is to have at least one segment of the frontage road be a Private Road to penalize through routing.
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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby abc1357 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:05 pm

Thanks. I misunderstood you. I had thought that you had recommended that we keep the frontage/service road the same FC class as the main road. Putting in a reminder for someone to check the proper FC type in the solutions section should help.
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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby abc1357 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:23 pm

New question: what is the guidance if there is no official FC for that frontage road?

Should we defer to regional discretion as t0cableguy mentions or should we guide that it must be at least 1 FC type lower (e.g. if Main road is MH, then Frontage/Service road could be mH, PS, S, PLR or PR; if main road is mH, then Frontage/Service road could be PS, S, PLR or PR; ...) with the additional guidance that if the Main road is Street type, then Frontage/Service road should be PR or PLR?
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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby abc1357 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:28 am

One example is Hillside Blvd in South San Francisco. The FC (See lower right corner Cell J10) only shows the FC type for the main road, not for the frontage road.
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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby abc1357 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:18 pm

subs5 wrote:Looking at your pdf link, the service road is just south of the Dashed line for the jurisdiction of the city boundary of that map. Is there another source that covers the actual FC of the service road? Once outside a jurisdiction, I could see that there are errors or intentionally omitted information.


The PDF I linked is the official FC from the California Department of Transportation. Although the frontage road in question is just south of the Dashed line for the jurisdiction of the city, the next page just below just continues from where the former leaves off and does not provide more detail on the area in question. I'm not aware of any other, more localized, FC source for CA.

subs5 wrote:I updated the FC link lead in to the page to refer to the state and region wiki for local guidance.


Looks good. This should be sufficient to deal with the situation I brought up as it reminds editors to review local/regional guidance. Thanks.
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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby jdelosa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:13 am

I have miles of these in NYC and have begun a project of moving the house numbers using the exact method you have described here.

My question comes to the naming of the service road.

Since ours (here in NYC) have no different name on the little green signs than the main roadway. They were named with the addition of Service Rd in parenthesis.

Like this:

Ocean Pkwy (Service Rd)

This has been set up this way for Linden Blvd, Eastern Pkwy, Queens Blvd, and Coney Island Ave to name a few.

So I was wondering if there should be a uniform naming process of if that should be a state driven thing.

I have completed approximately a third of the ones I know about so it would be no Problem to fix them as I go forward if a change would come from our discussions here.

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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby Kartografer » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:04 am

It would be good to have a wiki on this. I would revise the first section to start with something like "Service and frontage roads often cause routing problems, such as..." Then de-personalize the UR quotes to sound more encyclopedic

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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby PesachZ » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:28 pm

abc1357 wrote:New question: what is the guidance if there is no official FC for that frontage road?

Should we defer to regional discretion as t0cableguy mentions or should we guide that it must be at least 1 FC type lower (e.g. if Main road is MH, then Frontage/Service road could be mH, PS, S, PLR or PR; if main road is mH, then Frontage/Service road could be PS, S, PLR or PR; ...) with the additional guidance that if the Main road is Street type, then Frontage/Service road should be PR or PLR?

The national road types page has guidance for frontage / service roads, which should be followed in cases, unless there is superseding local (State/regional) guidance as codified in the wiki, or by RC discretion on a case-by-case basis. THis page should simply link to the national road types page for FC guidance and mention to check for any local variations on state/regional pages.
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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby PesachZ » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:38 pm

jdelosa wrote:I have miles of these in NYC and have begun a project of moving the house numbers using the exact method you have described here.

My question comes to the naming of the service road.

Since ours (here in NYC) have no different name on the little green signs than the main roadway. They were named with the addition of Service Rd in parenthesis.

Like this:

Ocean Pkwy (Service Rd)

This has been set up this way for Linden Blvd, Eastern Pkwy, Queens Blvd, and Coney Island Ave to name a few.

So I was wondering if there should be a uniform naming process of if that should be a state driven thing.

I have completed approximately a third of the ones I know about so it would be no Problem to fix them as I go forward if a change would come from our discussions here.

Thanks JD

Just to update here with the rationale for the NYS guidance to use "... (Service Rd)" as our naming convention. Considering that Service Rd is not part of the official name of the road, but they are referred to as service roads by directional signs along the road where needed (for example a sign saying "Main Rd << / Service Rd >>"), we used the parenthesis. We used Title case to be consistent and look professional and pleasing to the eyes. Additional benefits of using the parenthesis aside from differentiating it from the official road name is the added pause in TTS "turn right on Ocean Pkwy, Service Rd" which makes it clear to drivers to turn onto the service Rd. We abbreviate Rd as a suffix since it it not part of the official name.
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Re: [New Page] Service Roads

Postby PesachZ » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:49 pm

I think this page is a great idea. We have been implementing this style in NYC for a while, and have codified our naming guidelines in our local wiki. I'm glad to see the initiative to bring this to the national arena.

A few recommendations:
In general it is our wiki style to use Sentence case for most all page titles and section headers on the page, as such I'd recommend adjusting the titles accordingly.

We should not define what class to use for service roads here, or specify that they be different from the main road, as that is not always the case. We should instead emphasize that it is important to set the correct road type according the USA Road types guidance, and Note: that there is specific guidance on that page for service roads. We should also mention as I did in my post above to check for any local (Regional / State) variations in the local wiki pages.

Referring to road type in Waze as FC in general is misleading, since we do not follow a strict FC conversion, we use a hybrid system which relies heavily n FC but has some other rules as well with minimum criteria as explained in the Road Types page. Additionally in the intro paragraph I feel it is more appropriate to link to the Road Types page rather the FC resources page. (BTW the link the link to the FC is broken since it is not capitalized to match the page name.)

I would adjust the wording to clarify the intent as such:
Code: Select all
1. Routing off the main road to the service road and then back onto the main road.
2. Unable to get to the address since it is on the service road and there is a barrier from the main road.
3. The address is not found in search since it is listed on the service road, but it should use the main street's address.
4. Turn not allowed. Unable to make the recommended turn from the main road.

  1. Routing off the main road to the service road, and then back onto the main road.
  2. Being navigated to the main road for an address which is on the service rd. Stopping may not be allowed on the main rd, and the address may not be reachable from the main rd, especially if there is a barrier between the roads.
  3. The address is not found in search since it is listed on the service road, but it should use the main street's address. This causes the search to use 3rd party results even if there is a confirmed HN in Waze, leading to routing issues.
  4. Drivers unknowingly taking the main road instead of the recommended service rd, and then being unable to make a recommended turn further down since they are in the main rd instead of the service rd. This results in Turn not allowed URs, and the like.


Typo; extra "not" in the sentence "...because they did not not follow the recommended route..."

Solutions > Naming
  • I would Make BDP in the solutions be a link to the page
  • Remove the line "Details on how to do the names and HNs" since that is implied by the 2 section headers here.
  • I would consider reformatting the list as such:
    1. To prevent routing detours, and ensure we trigger Big Detour Prevention, make sure that the service road is separate from the main rd at all points by at least one segment that does not have the main rd name as either the primary or alternate name. This can be acheived by having an unnamed segment, or the name of an intersecting road.
      • Check for any Bowties, or forks where the main road connects directly to service road, a feeder road connects directly to both the main and service roads, or a slip roads (entrance or exit) connects between the two roads, and eliminate any continuous names.
      • In most cases these are best left as no-name segments.
    2. When adjusting for BDP also keep an eye out for any unintended Best Continuation issues, which would prevent the user from being given a prompt advising which road to turn on to.
    3. Test the routing after the tiles are built.
    4. To allow address matching in search, and proper House Number routing, ensure that the main road name is added to all the service road segments as an alternate name.

House Number section
  • Make a link to the HN wiki page.
  • Remove the lines for #3 & #4 they are repeated from the naming section and belong there better
    Check for any Bowties, or forks where the main road connects directly to service road, or a feeder road connects directly to both the main and service roads, and eliminate any Best Continuation issues.
    Check and adjust if necessary any slip roads, in most cases these are best left as no-name segments.
  • Make the line for "Test the routing after the tiles are built." be separate from the numbered list since it is not one of the listed 2 benefits to nudging house numbers.
  • Make the directions for moving the house numbers be a subsection, probably best if we set it as an expandable section which is collapsed by defualt.
  • Make the instructions as captions to the images in a gllery style two images to a row.
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