[NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

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[NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby johnsninja58 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:03 am

Just trying to restart the discussion on Hospitals/Urgent Cares from this original thread

johnsninja58 wrote:I was hoping to see if we are ready to finalize Fredo-P guidance for Hospitals. I had additional thoughts but felt that the initial discussion should be finalized before building upon that.

This discussion seamed to be in agreement on a couple of points:
-Urgent Care Centers utilize the "Hospital / Medical Care Category"
-Separate Point Place for "ER - Hospital Name" with the "Hospital / Medical Care Category"
-Separate Point Place for "ER Ambulance Entrance - Hospital Name" with the "Hospital / Medical Care Category"
-Locking these point places to appropriate level based off state guidance

I think all of those should be mapped for a hospital even if they are at the same location for consistency purposes.

Urgent Care Centers must have their hours included

What would be need left to move forward with Fredo-P wiki recommendations?
johnsninja58 wrote:Other questions I have regarding hospitals is the mapping of the places.

many large academic medical centers often encompass multiple buildings over many blocks. Near where I live there is in fact Longwood Medical Area that has multiple hospitals (not waze definition) in the same area.

Mapping the campus of these I was curious what was best practice or should be wiki guidance.

My thoughts:
-large medical campuses should be mapped as one area place including all associated buildings in the vicinity as part of the area place.
-Individual point places with an office category should be utilized for each building/entrance other than the main entrance.
-naming for these point places should be "(Entrance/Building name) - (Hospital Name)"
-alt names should be used for all hospitals that have known abbreviations - "(entrance/building name) - (Hospital Abbreviation)"
-gmaps results should be linked as appropriate

My big questions is we have one example where there is a large academic medical center with a split campus. The main part of the campus (East Campus) is considered the main complex, but the west campus is where the emergency department is. While I think guidance for these scenarios is most likely too complicated/appropriate for wiki guidance and should rest with consult senior editors/state manger, I do want to discuss to better understand and see if there is possible agreement for inclusion in the wiki.

In this above mentioned scenario, I envisioned that both campuses would be mapped as area places, with no area place for just the hospital name. Exp an area place for "West Campus - Hospital Name" and "East Campus - Hospital Name" but no "Hospital Name" area place. And both would be "Hospital / Medical Care" category. Gmaps for the hospital name would link to BOTH places. While I am not 100% understanding of the backend workings of linking gmaps places, this appears to be a common scenario where gmaps links can be to multiple waze places and currently I have not seen any scenarios outside incorrect linking causing problems, and this may assist with autofill results is my guess of why this occurs (PLEASE HELP CLARIFY IF I AM WRONG OR MISGUIDED :D )
KC-Guardrail wrote:
johnsninja58 wrote:Other questions I have regarding hospitals is the mapping of the places.

many large academic medical centers often encompass multiple buildings over many blocks. Near where I live there is in fact Longwood Medical Area that has multiple hospitals (not waze definition) in the same area.

Mapping the campus of these I was curious what was best practice or should be wiki guidance.

My thoughts:
-large medical campuses should be mapped as one area place including all associated buildings in the vicinity as part of the area place.
-Individual point places with an office category should be utilized for each building/entrance other than the main entrance.
-naming for these point places should be "(Entrance/Building name) - (Hospital Name)"
-alt names should be used for all hospitals that have known abbreviations - "(entrance/building name) - (Hospital Abbreviation)"
-gmaps results should be linked as appropriate

My big questions is we have one example where there is a large academic medical center with a split campus. The main part of the campus (East Campus) is considered the main complex, but the west campus is where the emergency department is. While I think guidance for these scenarios is most likely too complicated/appropriate for wiki guidance and should rest with consult senior editors/state manger, I do want to discuss to better understand and see if there is possible agreement for inclusion in the wiki.

In this above mentioned scenario, I envisioned that both campuses would be mapped as area places, with no area place for just the hospital name. Exp an area place for "West Campus - Hospital Name" and "East Campus - Hospital Name" but no "Hospital Name" area place. And both would be "Hospital / Medical Care" category. Gmaps for the hospital name would link to BOTH places. While I am not 100% understanding of the backend workings of linking gmaps places, this appears to be a common scenario where gmaps links can be to multiple waze places and currently I have not seen any scenarios outside incorrect linking causing problems, and this may assist with autofill results is my guess of why this occurs (PLEASE HELP CLARIFY IF I AM WRONG OR MISGUIDED :D )


My understanding of GM linking is that if someone chooses the GM pin, waze hijacks the stop point and routes to our stop point. So in your scenario, I would not link all the GM points to one waze point. If someone chooses a GM link in the other complex, they would be guided to the wrong location.
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Re: [NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby PesachZ » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:38 pm

Reposted to finidh the previous thread and locked the previous thread with a link to here.
johnsninja58 wrote:
KC-Guardrail wrote:My understanding of GM linking is that if someone chooses the GM pin, waze hijacks the stop point and routes to our stop point. So in your scenario, I would not link all the GM points to one waze point. If someone chooses a GM link in the other complex, they would be guided to the wrong location.


From my experience I thought the gmap result was suppressed and you would only see the linked waze place if it was linked. So you couldn't really see the gmap place.

But regardless I have seen multiple places linked by waze in the background to the same gmap place result so if you are correct there needs to be some refinement on waxes part to this linking.

I honestly don't know the answer and can only speak anecdotally from what I have seen which also may not be reflective of current state.


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AFAIK if a single Google place is linked to multiple Waze places, and the Google place is selected in search, then all the linked Waze places will be presented to the user, for them to choose the appropriate one. IMO this is a good user experience and we can use it to our advantage as a disambiguation.

About the split campus issue, I would like the hospital to have that category for the area place (also hoping one day the app will highlight hospital areas in pink like livemap does now). So in your case I would use the hospital category for the place on the side which encompassess tha actual hospital.

I didn't see any objections towards the end of the previous thread, so I think it safe to say we had agreement to the bulleted items you mention. The page was well written, and although it will need some more tweaks and updates, let's not allow it to stay dormant to another year while we wait to get it perfect. Let's put this page up, and then we can work to make it better after it is live.

This is my official re-proposal to publish this page. If no one objects over the next week, we'll make it live.
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Re: [NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby Kartografer » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:02 pm

As for the campus/center areas, they should also utilize the office and other appropriate categories in relation to what is found on that property (there are instances that a university may run a hospital and the location may be on or adjacent to the university and offer classes).

I suggest rewording this as "As for campus/center areas, their primary category should be Hospital / Medical Care, but they should also have secondary categories in relation to what is found on that property, such as Offices or College / University, if the hospital campus is on the campus of a university." That seems clearer.

I created a draft with this and a few formatting changes here. I changed capitalization to sentence case and used singulars, in according with the Wikipedia style manual. I put everything about hospitals under "Adding a hospital" and then placed stuff about urgent care clinics at the end. Also, I renamed the "Parking Lot Roads section to just "Parking lots" and added a little content about PLAs.
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Re: [NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby PesachZ » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:06 pm

I think we can lose the message box at the top since the name makes it obvious it relates to mapping hospitals, and everything in our wiki is for the USA.
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Re: [NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby PesachZ » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:14 pm

I made some small changes to your draft; fixed a typo, removed the box at the top, and clarified the urgent care definition.

I also think when we publish the name of the page should be "Hospital and Urgent Care"
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Re: [NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby subs5 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:19 pm

johnsninja58 wrote:This discussion seamed to be in agreement on a couple of points:
-Urgent Care Centers utilize the "Hospital / Medical Care Category"
-Separate Point Place for "ER - Hospital Name" with the "Hospital / Medical Care Category"
-Separate Point Place for "ER Ambulance Entrance - Hospital Name" with the "Hospital / Medical Care Category"
-Locking these point places to appropriate level based off state guidance


I agree with first two bullets, but recommend for the third that it specifies to use the ER Ambulance Entrance - Hospital Name only if it is separate from the ER for the general public.

johnsninja58 wrote:naming for these point places should be "(Entrance/Building name) - (Hospital Name)"


I understand naming each of the buildings. I am not sure that they need the hospital name unless they are just numbered buildings. The "Dr. Marcus Welby Medical Center" should be fine and not have to be Dr. Marcus Welby Medical Center - St. John's Hospital".
If it is just "Building 4" then "Building 4 - St. John's Hospital is fine. You might also consider what the military wazeopedia page has and have "Bldg 4- St. John's Hospital" and "B-4 - St. John's Hospital" for consistency when labeling places and to use a vernacular that many people use.

For the Entrance labeling, unless someone is trying to use a specific entrance or parking lot, I am not sure why the entrances have to be labeled. We aren't doing that for most places like a stadium. If the pinpoint is properly placed the dynamic routing should happen by the algorithm. Could you explain a little more why the Entrance place points are needed? Will they be required on each road into the campus? If so I think that is excessive. Thanks

For the split campus, should the one that is just offices and other facilities but not a Waze Hospital be labeled as an area office or school? That might lessen the confusion if someone searches for hospital.
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Re: [NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby johnsninja58 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:00 pm

subs5 wrote:
I agree with first two bullets, but recommend for the third that it specifies to use the ER Ambulance Entrance - Hospital Name only if it is separate from the ER for the general public.
- AGREED

subs5 wrote:
I understand naming each of the buildings. I am not sure that they need the hospital name unless they are just numbered buildings. The "Dr. Marcus Welby Medical Center" should be fine and not have to be Dr. Marcus Welby Medical Center - St. John's Hospital".
If it is just "Building 4" then "Building 4 - St. John's Hospital is fine. You might also consider what the military wazeopedia page has and have "Bldg 4- St. John's Hospital" and "B-4 - St. John's Hospital" for consistency when labeling places and to use a vernacular that many people use.

We just have some examples in the Boston area where the same person foundation has donated to most of the hospitals and subsequently has buildings at all the Major hospitals named after them, I was thinking similar to what we do with malls, but not always necessary

I think some of this guidance would only apply for Large Academic Medical Centers, which have multiple buildings and most community hospitals may not need the extra guidance. I can work on some wording to clarify.
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Re: [NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby Machete808 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:42 pm

Should there be language here to address nursing homes that provide medical care? A recommendation for the correct category? Clearly they don't belong in an urgent-care category, but I do find Places with the category set as hospital.
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Re: [NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby subs5 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:47 pm

Machete808 wrote:Should there be language here to address nursing homes that provide medical care? A recommendation for the correct category? Clearly they don't belong in an urgent-care category, but I do find Places with the category set as hospital.



I find "Lodging" and "Personal Care" to be best. Hospital / Medical Care is only for the Urgent Care and Hospitals that offer walk in service. The nursing homes with medical care are typically not open to the public so I change them to the above.

Just like a dentist or doctor's office is not "Hospital / Medical Care" by the Waze Definition.

Probably would help if the category was translated to "Hospital / Urgent Care" since a typical user that adds their doctor's office hasn't read the wiki and thinks Doctor = Medical Care.
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Re: [NEW WIKI] Hospitals & Urgent Care Clinics - Cont

Postby Kartografer » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:54 pm

subs5 wrote:
Machete808 wrote:Should there be language here to address nursing homes that provide medical care? A recommendation for the correct category? Clearly they don't belong in an urgent-care category, but I do find Places with the category set as hospital.



I find "Lodging" and "Personal Care" to be best. Hospital / Medical Care is only for the Urgent Care and Hospitals that offer walk in service. The nursing homes with medical care are typically not open to the public so I change them to the above.

Just like a dentist or doctor's office is not "Hospital / Medical Care" by the Waze Definition.

Probably would help if the category was translated to "Hospital / Urgent Care" since a typical user that adds their doctor's office hasn't read the wiki and thinks Doctor = Medical Care.


I think Lodging should be the only category for nursing homes, since Personal Care is also used for things like barbershops and salons, and a nursing home is quite different. I agree that it would be very nice to change the name of the Hospital / Medical Care to Hospital / Urgent Care. However, since US English is the default version of WME, I don't think we would be able to make a different translation, but that is just my guess.
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