[Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

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[Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby dBsooner » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:53 pm

I have decided to split the thread about Post Offices into three. Primarily to get the already agreed upon data into the WoP while allowing for further discussion on "Area vs Place" and "Naming".

This thread will concentrate on the "Area vs Place". I will copy the pertinent data into this thread below.

You can read the entire thread (which will now only be for Category), if you would like, at: https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6&t=239786
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Re: [Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby dBsooner » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:53 pm

sketch wrote:As for area vs. point, I am from a region where we believe post offices to be worthy of area places, and I agree with this determination. However, I wouldn’t say the same for VPOs and certainly not for CPUs.

ehepner1977 wrote:Personally, I'm not that enamored with the idea of an area place for the post office, but if the consensus of the other regions would be for an area, I won't get too excited.

dBsooner wrote:Area vs Point:
GLR: Not specified on WoP, so assuming US standard: Point
MAR: Not specified on WoP, so assuming US standard: Point
NER: Not specified on WoP, so assuming US standard: Point
NOR: Not specified on WoP, so assuming US standard: Point
NWR: Not specified on WoP, so assuming US standard: Point
PLN: Not specified on WoP, so assuming US standard: Point
SAT: Not specified on WoP, so assuming US standard: Point
SCR: Area
SER: Area
SWR: Not specified on WoP, so assuming US standard: Point
ATR: Not specified on WoP, so assuming US standard: Point

Obviously I didn't drill down into State / Territory level to look.. But I sure hope all states follow their region's guidance. As you can tell, there are officially (per WoP data) only two regions that recommend area. But, looking through region WoP's, half of them don't publish any data specific to the region.

sketch wrote:I still think full post offices should be Areas.
Last edited by dBsooner on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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[Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby juliansean » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:02 pm

I think that a post office is a government building and since we (SCR) use area for government buildings I am in favor of an AP.


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Last edited by juliansean on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby ehepner1977 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:14 pm

juliansean wrote:I think that a post office is a government building and since we use area for government buildings I am in favor of an AP.


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Currently, the national table has government as a point. That guidance may be different in SCR.

To respectfully disagree with Sketch, a courthouse is listed as a point, and while used less often (unless you're a lawyer), I can't see a post office needing to be more visible than a courthouse.

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Re: [Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby juliansean » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:41 pm

Updated my post. Thank you.


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Re: [Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby unlimited1808 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:16 pm

I do not support post offices as area places. There's enough clutter in the map. Let's not make it worse.

I don't need the visual reference of a post office if I'm free Wazing. If I need a post office, I'll search for and navigate to one.
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Re: [Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby sketch » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:44 pm

As always, I disagree with "clutter" as a legitimate reason for keeping useful points of reference off the map. Post offices are few and far between, and the idea that an area place for one building in a town, or a handful of buildings in a city, is "clutter" is preposterous to me.

I would argue the same for courthouses specifically and government buildings generally. Area places are for visual reference, and things that are few but notable are good visual references.

At any rate, much of area vs. point is subject to regional differences, and I'm not opposed to it staying that way if we don't reach a general consensus.
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Re: [Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby dBsooner » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:06 pm

While I can side with some "clutter" (read: PLA's larger than ## ft squared) arguments, I do not feel Post Offices would add "clutter". As sketch mentioned, most towns will have one or two Post Offices while most cities will have several. Referencing the January 2006 publication from the USPS (note: prior to budget cuts, thus less locations and introduction of VPO's), there were "5,622 classified stations and branches served postal customers." Subnote 2: "In 2005, postal customers were served by 3,116 contract stations and branches and 1,019 community post offices." SOURCE. That is on average 112.5 per state. That's very sparse compared to other types of buildings and places we mark AP's. I agree with Sketch about only making full Post Offices area places. VPO's and CPU's often are not dedicated to solely USPS, therefor should not be included as an area place (as they aren't technically a Government building [SCR reference]).

We mark every gas station as an AP (which there is one on almost every corner these days), but we won't do so for government buildings? If I am new to an area, or even in my own area, I sometimes find myself going, "Heh.. Didn't know THAT was there" when seeing something on a map while riding. (Notice I didn't say driving. ;) ) Government buildings are usually important places that almost everyone will visit at least once. Or be asked where the a specific location is, or where the nearest one is. The same goes for a Post Office.

Yes, I am referencing a lot of SCR guidance here as we DO map Government buildings as AP's. I understand national guidance is to make Government buildings PP's, but maybe that's another discussion? If Post Office is agreed it should be an AP, then discussion to make Government buildings the same could be brought up.
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Re: [Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby PhantomSoul » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:16 pm

I think this is kind of subjective by location, most of which will probably make sense to keep as point. Does a particular post office location - building, grounds, or otherwise - stand out in a way, compared to its surroundings, that would be recognizable as a landmark if you saw a shaded polygon with its name on the map? This is kind of my baseline criteria for area vs point for any type of place, except of course, the ones with other functional requirements, like gas stations or parking lots.

Frankly, I'm also not sure what being a government or otherwise public building has anything to do with anything regarding area vs. point.
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Re: [Page Update] Places - Post Office - Area vs Place

Postby FzNk » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:43 pm

I'd argue that post offices don't consistently make good points of reference at all. There's no need for a post office to advertise its location so the most you'll generally be able to recognize is perhaps a small sign and the blue drop boxes if they happen to be near the road. Worse than that is when a post office includes a processing center which can take up a full city block but looks like a commercial distribution center from any direction other than the front or corner that contains the retail lobby & PO Boxes.

They're just not on the same level as identifiable landmarks like fire stations, gas stations, schools, etc.
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