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[PAGE UPDATE] Gas stations only for fleet/commercial

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Proposed addition to the gas-station article, located between "Brand" and "Lock":
Proposed addition wrote:Commercial-only stations

Some gas stations support only commercial or fleet vehicles and are inaccessible to the vast majority of Wazers. If you can verify that a station is not available to the general public, three adjustments will minimize its impact on the average Wazer: (1) add "(commercial vehicles only)" to the station's primary name; (2) map it with a Point Place rather than an Area Place; and (3) use the category "Factory / Industrial" instead of "Gas Station".
Explanation: this is a case of the "needs of the many" vs. the "needs of the few". To be clear, nothing about the above will prevent commercial drivers from routing to a particular station they want. We are only ensuring that Waze does not offer or display to 99.9% of Wazers (yes, a guess, but probably not too far off!) gas stations they can't possibly use.

I bring this up because last week Waze routed me to a commercial gas station that was 2 minutes off my route. The prices looked good, so I selected it, but those prices were not going to be available to me without a fleet card and I don't think they would have let me fuel there at all. This didn't seem right.

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Post by Inactive user -1697532064-
I agree with dfortney that commercial vehicles only is too broad. It's the same amount of work to write that as to write something more specific; when one edits a gas station they should check the info for accuracy anyway. Then they should write whichever warning is applicable, be it (fleet account required), (semis only), (members only), etc. I support unbranding these types of stations, and keeping area places and GS category. With the name changed, you will also see this note in the area place name, which is another opportunity to get the point across. If someone does a gas station category search and actually sees these warnings on the list but picks such a station without reading, that's on them 100% for not reading info clearly displayed. At the same time, these with such access can still use the GS category in areas that may be unfamiliar. No need to cripple this function for them. Since this is a non-binary choice (as opposed to private gate setup, for example), we can arrive at guidance that benefits both groups of users
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Post by Inactive user -1697532064-
DwarfLord wrote: Are you proposing an "editor's choice" approach for the warning, depending on the specific station, brand, signage, and editor preference? Or are you proposing that the Wazeopedia gas-station guidance lists a limited number of acceptable choices from which the editor should choose? I can get behind either proposal, but there may be a devil in the details, so please offer specific alternative proposal text. At least we all agree (I think?) that there should be a warning of some kind in the primary name.
Yes, I propose an editor's choice. Editors can figure this out on their own.
Dwarflord wrote: I still don't see how it is a net positive for the wider Wazing public for Waze to offer choices unusable to 999 drivers out of 1000, even if they are marked as being unusable. The "pro" arguments are correct -- we've always done it that way, it is more consistent for editors, and it does support commercial Wazers -- I just feel the "con" arguments outweigh them. Let's see if additional opinions come in.

In the meantime if someone would like to offer replacement guidance for what I proposed we can move forward discussing that.
I'd submit that accuracy is another pro of keeping the gas station category, and inaccuracy is a con of removing it. A fleet gas station is not a factory, nor does it offer generic car services. No one would say these aren't actually gas stations, and how dense do these appear that they would significantly pollute search results for non-commercial Wazers? So here's what I propose:
Proposed addition wrote:Commercial-only stations

Some gas stations support only commercial or fleet vehicles and are inaccessible to the vast majority of Wazers. If you can verify that a station is not available to the general public, three adjustments will minimize its impact on the average Wazer:
(1) append a parenthetical warning to the station's primary name, such as (fleet account required), (commercial trucks only) or whatever else accurately describes the restricted customer base.
(2) Remove the brand, so that the full primary name will show in a gas station category search.
I get that we want to do what helps drivers. These fleet fueling stations don't help the majority of drivers (we don't know stats really), but they help some and don't hinder others if one shows up in search with appropriate warnings. Drivers are drivers; their job is to make decisions using clearly available info, whether that's outside the car or on the phone. Our job as editors is to accurately create maps with utility, simplicity and data retention. I think this proposal is useful for all, very simple, and it also retains data associated with the GS category.
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Post by abc1357
My main argument is usability to the general user when they do a Gas Station search, not a named search. When I do a Gas Station search, I want to be given a list of stations that are generally available to the public. I understand that there are some stations, such as Costco that are open to members only, but my feeling is that these restrictions are known to the general public. However, with a gas station such as Flyer's, there are some that are open to the general public and some that are commercial fleet only. Moreover, when the brand is included in the Gas Station details, the primary name is not shown, so adding "Commercial Only" to the primary name would not be useful to the driver. There was discussion about adding the details to the description field, but how many of our users actually tap the gas station selection and read the description field before hitting "Go"?

Removing these stations from the "Gas Station" category should reduce the confusion during a Gas Station search.
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Post by abc1357
Kartografer wrote: If someone does a gas station category search and actually sees these warnings on the list but picks such a station without reading, that's on them 100% for not reading info clearly displayed. At the same time, these with such access can still use the GS category in areas that may be unfamiliar.
I cannot say I agree with this. The extreme vast majority of users doing a GS search are most likely not commercial drivers looking for card-locked gas stations.

Drivers who have fleet cards are more than likely going to be doing one of two activities when searching for a gas station:
  • Searching for any gas station and, therefore, will most likely be using the Gas Station search function
  • Searching specifically for the station that accepts their Card type (e.g. Flyer's Energy, CFN Network) and would most likely be doing a name search.
As a example, when I am looking for coffee, I can do a “Coffee” search by selecting the coffee cup in the icon list (equivalent to a GS search) or by using name search (e.g. Starbucks).

If we accept this premise, then I would argue that it does not make sense to categorize the Stations that are card-locked as Gas Stations. Removing these types of stations from GS reduces the chances that someone does a gas station category search and actually sees these warnings on the list but picks such a station without reading, that's on them 100% for not reading info clearly displayed.

[Edit: Added the following]
Note: Not all Flyer's Energy or CFN stations are card-locked. Below are examples of each:

Card-locked Flyer's Energy/CFN station located at 139 Encinal St, Santa Cruz, CA (which was the one that Dwarflord highlighted in SWR Discord before opening this discussion)
Card-locked Flyers CFN.jpg
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Open to the public Flyer's Energy/CFN station located at 2000 19th Ave, San Francisco, CA. Note the CFN logo on the awning just above the traffic light on the right.
Open to Public Flyers CFN.jpg
(87.69 KiB) Downloaded 217 times

My argument (and I believe, Dwarflord's) is to not categorize the former as Gas Stations, but to categorize them with something else such as car services.
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Post by abc1357
unlimited1808 wrote: What I do know is the amount of business at the Pacific Pride I visit weekly is significantly more than you would expect. It's everything from commercial trucks to the car dealer fueling up passenger vehicles. We have no means to tally the number of them using Waze.
Is that Pacific Pride station that you frequent also open to the public or is it card-locked?
Kartografer wrote: how dense do these appear that they would significantly pollute search results for non-commercial Wazers?
I did a location search for a Pacific Pride location around me, and I see that all of the stations within a 10 mile radius are open to the public gas stations that accept the Pacific Pride Fleet card, along with other payment types. I also did a location search for CFN Network Stations around me - 3 out of the closest 10 are card-locked stations.

From this decidedly unscientific study, I argue that the number of card-locked stations is a small percentage of the total number of gas stations. This would indicate that the instances of card-lock gas station hits would not be very high unless you happen to be close to one. Anecdotally, I did not see any of the card-locked stations show up out of the 20 stations offered when I did a Waze GS search from my location.

Based on this, I can agree on not changing the Category, but, at a minimum, we should adopt the proposed language with a change highlighted.
Kartografer wrote:So here's what I propose:
Proposed addition wrote:Commercial-only stations

Some gas stations support only commercial or fleet vehicles and are inaccessible to the vast majority of Wazers. If you can verify that a station is not available to the general public, two (it said three originally) adjustments will minimize its impact on the average Wazer:
(1) append a parenthetical warning to the station's primary name, such as (fleet account required), (commercial trucks only) or whatever else accurately describes the restricted customer base.
(2) Remove the brand, so that the full primary name will show in a gas station category search.
I still think that these stations should be changed to Point Places, instead of Area Places, so they do not appear on the Waze app map.
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Post by abc1357
RussPA wrote:True. Ultimately, a new category is needed for these special places to make them truly usable, but none of us will probably live long enough to see that. If the gas station list could show comments, we could keep GS and add special notes like "CG Only" in the Description field.
I don't think adding anything into the Description field will actually work. My feeling (not backed up by any research) is that people will select the Gas Station icon, pick one of the results and hit "Go". To see the description, one would need to scroll the screen and I really doubt most people would do that...

If the category choice is between Car Services, Factory/Industrial, or Shopping/Services, I opt for Car Services also.
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Post by CitizenTraffic
I think, to clarify the point of commercial/fleet, where someone may interpret that commercial could be any business, it should read something like:

Some gas stations support only commercial or fleet vehicles, that require special cards or special access, and are inaccessible to the vast majority of Wazers.
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Post by Deltamanx
Dwarflord wrote:Alternative category such as "Car Services" "Other" or "Factory/Industrial"
- (pro) Waze no longer suggests routing to stations unusable by vast majority of Wazers
- (pro) Little downside for commercial Wazers, who are unlikely to use station finder
- (con) Commercial drivers can't enter fleet prices in the app
- (con) Unknown potential of issues with Waze back end
- (con) Inconsistent and complex for editors
I strongly feel that the fleet fuel stations should be omitted from the gas station search if possible, or at least have a qualifier such as "(fleet vehicles only)" or similar. However, the inability of commercial drivers to enter fuel prices is a deal-breaker for me; the category of Gas station should be included for card-lock stations.

Using data from the sources below, I estimate that ~3.5% of the fuel purchased in the US is through fleet programs.

fuel cost: $3.00
TTL Gallons US 142850000000
TTL Cost $428,550,000,000.00
Fleet Gross $15,000,000,000.00
Fleet % 0.03500175009

I had to interpret this statement to mean: "The fleet card market is expected to grow (to) $35 billion by 2019, a more than $20 billion increase from its current value." ("Is the Fleet Card Business Fueling Up?") Although we still don't know how many of these drivers are also Wazers, an estimate of 2 - 5% of the Waze population using fleet cards is within reason. Giving useless or misleading information to 95% of Wazers seems to warrant a differentiated way of handling fleet stations.

Regarding multiple qualifiers: As someone who has harmonized a great deal of Places, it would be a challenge to find specific information about the type of fleet restrictions for a station, e.g. semi's only, commercial vehicles only, etc. This is especially true of fuel stations, whose websites often do not display the data that we tend to mine from them.

I support:
  • Unbranded label
  • Standardized generic qualifier: (fleet account required) or similar with the option of a more specific qualifier if the editor has evidence to support it.
  • Point Place for fleet stations to reduce clutter on the Client
SOURCES
Is The Fleet Card Business Fueling Up?
How much gasoline does the United States consume?
U.S. Regular Gasoline Prices
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Post by dfortney
I strongly agree these private fleet stations should not be Gas Station type. Many users heavily rely upon the Gas Station / Fuel icon search within the app to find a gas station, and would not be happy being led to an unmanned, private fueling station.

I agree these should be point places, would suggest "Car Services" or "Other" as category, and (private - fleet fueling only) appended to the name. The issue with "commercial vehicles only" is that is too broad - the vast majority of commercial vehicles would not be registered with a specific fuel station.
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Post by dfortney
Strongly agree that a CNG station should not be listed as a gas station. Gas station category should only be used for venues that are logical search results for a large portion of Wazers.

I would say Yes to Costco gas - that is a well-known consumer brand where membership requirements are understood by a large percentage of the public...

And No to commercial-only entities such as Flyers - it is NOT a well-known brand, and most drivers would reasonably assume that's just a little-known gas station brand and not realize it is restricted to commercial drivers with a special access card. I think there are some Flyers that sell gas to the public - those of course should be under the Gas Station category.
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