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Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:34 pm
by DwarfLord
SeveriorumPatrem wrote:This is the proposal I wrote in the other thread:

Your proposed direction is essentially restoring our pre-parking-lot-feature guidance. I had a hand in that prior guidance back when we only had one global wiki. It took a lot of work to iron out in international discussions that lasted months.

So no, I wasn't exactly thrilled when Waze introduced their "machine learning" la-dee-da and invalidated most of that work. Later I was even less thrilled when they seemed to lose interest in the whole affair and left us with what I think most of us will agree is awkward, incomplete, error-prone, embarrassing abandonware.

That being said, for the community to deliberately and explicitly depart from Waze's official guidance is...well, rebellion. Is rebellion the correct response to abandonment? Maybe. But that's sure above my pay grade.

Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:38 pm
by DwarfLord
jm6087 wrote:
wiki wrote:[...]Current guidance is to add PLAs to the map, as the client is being updated. Initially we should focus on adding large and/or popular lots, but all lots should eventually be added.

This can probably be removed IMO

Agree. There are other spots in the article that can be watered down as well, for example:
wiki wrote:At this time, parking lot areas (PLA) should be added to all lots including businesses with small parking lots (less than 10 spaces). Start by adding parking lots to event venues, shopping centers, airports, public use lots, garages, multi-use parking lots, popular lots with heavy usage or URs, etc.

We could kill the sentence about "should be added" and rephrase the second sentence to emphasize the low (i.e. approaching zero) priority given to any lot other than the listed types. (What is a "multi-use" parking lot as distinct from the other types in that list?)

Probably the whole article needs to be gone over, that "map everything" enthusiasm may be lurking in the choice of words and sentence structure in multiple spots.

Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:45 pm
by DwarfLord
SeveriorumPatrem wrote:The rest of them, IMO, are unhelpful clutter baggage and future-maintenance black holes, and should be removed.

No matter how well justified, a mass deletion campaign is always going to be a tough sell. You and I may not have created that many private parking lots, but some goodhearted well-meaning people following all the rules to the letter did. Normal human nature being what it is, some of them would take it hard to see all that work undone. And who can know whether Waze will suddenly switch gears some year, finish the feature, and tell us to bring them all back?

We are in a no-win situation. I agree with your principles, but as much as tactically I'd love to see all those excess PLAs go away, strategically I fear doing so would cause more trouble than it solved.

This is exactly why I am always uncomfortable about new mass-editing campaigns. It's easy to go forward, very, very hard to go back. Like Merlin says in Excalibur...

Merlin wrote:Looking at the cake is like looking at the future. Until you've tasted it what do you really know? And then, of course, it's too late.

Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:29 pm
by jm6087
As a general rule, the national guidance is probably still good.

I do question whether
Current guidance is to add PLAs to the map, as the client is being updated

in the top banner should still be included. The client is not being updated and most/all regions have probably gone with the attitude that feel free to add them but they aren't that urgent since the feature is on the back burner.

But overall, as has been discussed in Discord, we don't tell anyone not to map them, we just say there are much better things to spend time on. But that is technically a regional guidance.

Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:05 am
by jm6087
I guess I may be confused at what the intention is for or something (very possible) but

Proposal wrote:
    1. If there is a listing with proper name/Address, ex. National Theater Garage/2354 Massachusetts Ave, list the proper name as the PLA's primary name and use then Parking - Address as the alternate.

    2. If an alternate address is given for the actual entrance, then add that as an alternate name. Example for National Theater there is an indication that the entrance is 129 8th St, then add Parking - 129 8th St and make sure there that House Number is added to WME.

    3. Note some parking lots/garages even have signage that says "Welcome to 2354 Massachusetts Ave" as you drive into the lot/garage, especially if the entrance is on another street.

#1. I don't see a need to add the address as an alt, wouldn't that be handled by an address search in the app. We don't do this for business, we just add an RPP (if needed) to cover the person searching for the address.

#2. You can name the stop points for when phase 2 or 3 of MEPs is active.

#3. If the official name of the lot is actually 2354 Massachusetts Ave then it should be named that but being that is just the address of the building, it is would be covered under the either the building place (if it is a valid PP) or by RPP/HN (if needed) to cover address searching.

Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:56 pm
by jm6087
I would think that moving toward your suggestion would be something that you should bring up to your (A)RC to discuss amongst (A)RC and champs.

Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:06 pm
by jm6087
Since i am a new champ, I still don't know all the ins and outs.

I am sure discussion is fine, just want to make sure that the champs were in the discussion be a decision was made.

Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:01 pm
by jm6087
moogonk wrote:Maybe we don't go back to the way things used to be, but perhaps we reduce some of the urgency that was added to the wiki page a few years ago when corporate started the new process. I see no reason to emphasize the importance of mapping PLAs over other Places, in most situations.

This I 100% agree with. In the SCR, we don't restrict people from adding PLAs but we do stress that it is not priority at all and that working places is much more beneficial to the end user.
wiki wrote:New Parking features are being rolled out to display Parking Lot Areas in the client app. It is now encouraged to convert point places to area places. New parking lot point places can no longer be created. Waze is also importing Parking Lot Areas. Do not delete them unless instructed to do so. Use the guidance here to improve their name, data, shape, and placement. Current guidance is to add PLAs to the map, as the client is being updated. Initially we should focus on adding large and/or popular lots, but all lots should eventually be added.

This can probably be removed IMO

Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:54 pm
by jm6087
I agree that we need to take the emphasis out of mapping PLAs.

I don't agree with the need to go and delete the vast majority of the PLAs out there. Under your suggestion, we would probably be deleting 75% or more.

Re: [Page update] Places/Parking lot

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:22 pm
by jm6087
SeveriorumPatrem wrote:Also, the issue of PLAs named for relocated or defunct businesses is going to get worse over time. Do we have any ideas how we are going to stay ahead of that, or just live with it?

I believe this was resolved in the Places Wiki
[ img ]

Maybe we need to add a link back to the closed places wiki somewhere.

EDIT: Thanks for the discussion on the PLAs.