[Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs  Topic is solved

Moderators: MapSir, USA Champs

[Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs  Topic is solved

Postby Kartografer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:26 pm

There's been some discussion in various places about how to handle roundabouts with at-grade connectors (AKA bypasses) where the AGC is persistently avoided. Some hacks work better than others, but the only available info has been in forum threads and Discord chat sessions.

Because of that, I figured it would be helpful to add a section to the roundabouts page with some information on these setups, including use of U-turn prevention and detour prevention to force routing through the AGC. Since these are hacks, my draft contains warnings to only use them when there's a demonstrable need and only under supervision of local leadership. I brought this up in the SM channel beforehand and got some buy-in on the need to document this.

The draft also includes some new info on what happens when you connect multiple roads to the same RA node and when it's appropriate, moves the entrance section below the instructions section (since understanding instructions helps one understand entrances), and also some formatting changes to the rest of the page, like removing second-person pronouns.

Page
Draft
Diff
[ img ]
Galaxy S9 running Pie on Mint
SM Ohio, AM New Mexico, South Dakota
Wazeopedia projects
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
-John 8:32
Kartografer
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:32 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 711 times

Re: [Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs

Postby mhh60 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:20 pm

Great draft!
[ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ]
[ img ]
AM Southwestern ON
AM Guam/CNMI
AM Fairbanks AK
AM New Mexico
AM Puerto Rico
mhh60
Waze Mentor
Waze Mentor
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:49 am
Location: Macomb County, Michigan
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: [Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs

Postby voludu2 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:44 pm

I've done some wordsmithing.
One of the cases covered is where the roundabout is truly a detour from the highway.
This does not really fit under the title or concept of inappropriate avoidance of AGCs.

All the covered cases fit some general theme of - routes that inappropriately use roundabouts instead of <something something>, but I haven't come up with really good wording.

If anyone else has a good idea, please chime in.

[ img ]
USA Northeast Region Discord Chat
State Manager - Pennsylvania
Country Manager - USA and Thailand
Wiki Master, Global Mentor
utilitas, simplicitas, retentionis
voludu2
Map Editor - Level 5
Map Editor - Level 5
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:33 pm
Location: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Has thanked: 776 times
Been thanked: 1194 times

Re: [Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs

Postby Kartografer » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:57 pm

I think we were editing at the same time. I changed AGC to bypass throughout. Does it look better? To me, this term is more descriptive, defined more broadly, clearer and better understood in general use. AGC is a term invented by Waze editors to distinguish ramps from non-ramps.
[ img ]
Galaxy S9 running Pie on Mint
SM Ohio, AM New Mexico, South Dakota
Wazeopedia projects
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
-John 8:32
Kartografer
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:32 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 711 times

Re: [Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs

Postby Happy_Lyn » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:08 pm

I'm sorry- I'm a little late. I'm not sure I fully understand the change from AGC to bypass.

The term "AGC" is defined as
Segments that interconnect roads at the same grade elevation.
There is nothing in the definition that restricts the usage to "ramp vs non-ramp" situations. There is also nothing in the definition that leads me to believe that it is only ever referring to the segments that editors overuse for turn lanes.

I have also seen people use the term "AGC" more often in reference to roundabouts than I have "bypass," making "AGC" a more well-accepted and understood term. It seems like setting a standard that is different for many people could cause confusion with newer editors. I would bet that if someone refers to the "AGC on the roundabout", everyone would know what that person was referring to.
LAM in Michigan, USA
AM in Austin, Pennsylvania, USA
AM in Beckley, West Virginia, USA
[ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ][ img ]


Saving routing, one soft turn and city name at a time.
Happy_Lyn
Area Manager
Area Manager
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:37 am
Has thanked: 133 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: [Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs

Postby Kartografer » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:36 pm

I don't think AGC is a bad term. I guess the issues are that
  1. AGC is Waze editor lingo, so only Waze editors understand what it means, whereas everyone (even brand new editors) understands what a bypass is;
  2. bypass is the word used by the FHWA in their guide to roundabouts;
  3. bypass is more descriptive, in that the purpose of the road is to keep some traffic away from the roundabout;
  4. and some roundabout bypasses don't really look like AGCs, especially when they carry an important road like a freeway.

The original purpose of the AGC page was to specify that these kinds of connectors are not ramps and should be treated like their own thing in the US. In other countries editors were using the ramp type for them, but our community did not want to do that. There was no existing, unified terminology for this kind of separate roadway that goes between two other roads, is not a ramp, and may or may not be close to the intersection of the roads, so a new term needed to be coined for it. Both are useful terms for these kinds of roadways associated with roundabouts, but I was convinced on Discord that bypass is more useful.
[ img ]
Galaxy S9 running Pie on Mint
SM Ohio, AM New Mexico, South Dakota
Wazeopedia projects
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
-John 8:32
Kartografer
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:32 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 711 times

Re: [Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs

Postby sketch » Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 pm

I would rather we use the word "bypass" as in "roundabout bypass", "roundabout bypass segment", "bypass segment", etc.

Yes, seasoned Waze editors should understand what an "AGC" is, but the meaning of "roundabout bypass" should be clear to anyone and removes a barrier to comprehension by folks who maybe haven't been around that long. And I do not agree that "AGC on the roundabout" would be clear to everyone. "What do you mean on the roundabout?" Yeah, I could figure it out, but I've been doing this a real long time. I'm quite sure you and we all have heard "AGC" more often than "bypass", but just because we're all here together living in TLA Hell doesn't mean we can't try to push back on that tendency a little bit. (I mean, I've caught some using "WMA" to refer to the app. What does that even stand for? "Waze Map App"? Just say "the app"!)

Ultimately, a roundabout bypass is an AGC, it's just a specific type of AGC that's used to bypass a roundabout. But just as we don't need to say "square rectangle", we don't need to say "roundabout bypass AGC", and without including the words "roundabout bypass", we haven't fully explained the purpose of the segment in the first place.
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
assistant regional coordinator • south central region • usa
waze global champ • beta leader • tier one • new orleans
2017 chevrolet ss sedan 6mt • slipstream blue metallic
[ img ] [ img ]
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 6422
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: Nouvelle-Orléans, Louisiane, États-Unis
Has thanked: 2012 times
Been thanked: 2516 times

Re: [Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs

Postby Kartografer » Tue May 21, 2019 3:14 pm

Are we good to publish these changes?
[ img ]
Galaxy S9 running Pie on Mint
SM Ohio, AM New Mexico, South Dakota
Wazeopedia projects
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
-John 8:32
Kartografer
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:32 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 711 times

Re: [Page update] Roundabouts with AGCs

Postby Kartografer » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:48 am

Done
[ img ]
Galaxy S9 running Pie on Mint
SM Ohio, AM New Mexico, South Dakota
Wazeopedia projects
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
-John 8:32
Kartografer
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:32 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 711 times


Return to US Wiki Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Happy_Lyn