[PAGE UPDATE] City names (in Road name, Road name/city name)

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Re: [PAGE UPDATE] City names (in Road name, Road name/city n

Postby DwarfLord » Fri May 24, 2019 11:08 pm

:mrgreen: UNIVERSITY LA is recognized (if deprecated) as a place name for LSU by the USPS??? Do people write to GOVERNMENT DC, BOARDWALK NJ, BEACH HI, or SCHOOL CA?

OK maybe relying on USPS recognition to rule out silly city names isn't such a good idea.
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Re: [PAGE UPDATE] City names (in Road name, Road name/city n

Postby russblau » Sun May 26, 2019 3:11 pm

Virginia has adopted a guideline that if the USPS name for addresses on a given segment is different from the primary city name on that segment (including "No city" as a primary name), then the USPS name should be added as an alternate name.

Given that we're unlikely to reach any nationwide consensus on primary city names due to state-to-state differences in how local governments are organized, how about adopting the Virginia guideline instead? A segment can have multiple alternate names, corresponding to variations on the city name accepted by USPS, so that's not a problem. If one of them isn't commonly used and no one ever searches for it, there's no harm done. But if a user does search for "123 Jones St, University, LA" for some reason, we'd have it on the map as an alternate name and the search would go to the correct location.

Note that the existing city name guidance only covers segments with "No city" as the primary name, so it doesn't cover situations like Queens where the primary USPS "city" name is not the same as the municipality (in this case, borough) name.
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Re: [PAGE UPDATE] City names (in Road name, Road name/city n

Postby Kartografer » Sun May 26, 2019 5:01 pm

russblau wrote:Virginia has adopted a guideline that if the USPS name for addresses on a given segment is different from the primary city name on that segment (including "No city" as a primary name), then the USPS name should be added as an alternate name.

Given that we're unlikely to reach any nationwide consensus on primary city names due to state-to-state differences in how local governments are organized, how about adopting the Virginia guideline instead? A segment can have multiple alternate names, corresponding to variations on the city name accepted by USPS, so that's not a problem. If one of them isn't commonly used and no one ever searches for it, there's no harm done. But if a user does search for "123 Jones St, University, LA" for some reason, we'd have it on the map as an alternate name and the search would go to the correct location.

Note that the existing city name guidance only covers segments with "No city" as the primary name, so it doesn't cover situations like Queens where the primary USPS "city" name is not the same as the municipality (in this case, borough) name.

Absolutely. I was not sure why the current alt name guidance was limited to "no city" segments and kind of forgot about it when I gave my answer above. Maybe because in city disagreement areas Google will match the USPS name searched to the primary city of the Waze segment most of the time without an alt name. Still, that doesn't mean it will match every time, and it can still be confusing for folks who search their postal address and then see the redirect with a different city. Also, a HN could be duplicated across a large city or borough (IIRC this has been a problem in Brooklyn), and it doesn't hurt to just put the USPS name on every segment. It's also a lot easier to do now, thanks to your script and others.
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Re: [PAGE UPDATE] City names (in Road name, Road name/city n

Postby DwarfLord » Tue May 28, 2019 5:27 pm

I wanted to post another example of how relying on CDPs for primary naming can be problematic. Not only is there the case of "the City of UC Davis" I mentioned earlier, but California also has two CDPs named "Live Oak". One is Live Oak, a neighborhood of Santa Cruz that the Waze map helpfully calls "Live Oak CDP"; the other is Live Oak, an incorporated town north of Yuba City that the Waze map started out calling "Live Oak (2)". If we harmonized the place names to both be Live Oak we'd have a massive smudge, as they are roughly 150 miles apart.

(Separate issue is the number of years it takes for Waze to realize that one of its original cities needs its name changed; the old stuff seems to hang around in the back end in perpetuity.)
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Re: [PAGE UPDATE] City names (in Road name, Road name/city n

Postby Kartografer » Tue May 28, 2019 6:14 pm

Yeah, that's a good point. There's a similar situation in Ohio with a CDP and a village called Bainbridge. The village was labeled in Waze as Bainbridge (2), since renamed, after the CDP was renamed to Bainbridge Township. And as for the military base city name hack, I thought about that but forgot to mention it. They have their own rules, of course, and we can mention that.

So can we propose some specific text to evaluate, maybe something like these?
Again modified road names paragraph wrote:To keep city names from sprawling over too wide an area in the Waze app, in WME and LiveMap, a city name should only be used as a primary name onfor segments details within the boundaries of the city polygon located in areas determined by local leadership to be displayed as cities on the map. This generally includes incorporated cities, towns, villages, etc., as well as census-designated or other unincorporated places recognized as city names by the USPS, but rules vary by state. That may means many addresses on the map are in these “no city” areas, particularly in rural regions.

and
Again modified city names paragraph wrote:To keep city names from sprawling over too wide an area in the Waze app, WME, and Live Map, editors follow standards of placing the city name on segment details only within the boundaries of the city polygon area determined by local leadership to be displayed as a city on the map. This is generally an incorporated area like a city, town, village, etc., but could also be a census-designated or other unincorporated place with a name recognized by the USPS; rules vary by state. That may means many addresses on the map are in these “no city” areas, particularly in rural regions.
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Re: [PAGE UPDATE] City names (in Road name, Road name/city n

Postby DwarfLord » Tue May 28, 2019 7:11 pm

Perfect. Gives authority to local leadership while still providing some basic guidelines on analysis, and not too wordy or complicated. Two thumbs up.
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Re: [PAGE UPDATE] City names (in Road name, Road name/city n

Postby Kartografer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:26 pm

Looks like we reached consensus here, so I have made the changes. As indicated above, I included "except for within [[Military Bases|military bases]]" as an exception in the language in each section.
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