Schools and Stop Points

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Schools and Stop Points

Postby DrivingWithBill » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:15 am

I am still quite new at all of this and realize it might take an act of got to make even minor changes to the wazeopedia, I was wondering what peoples thoughts were on requiring that schools have entry points. My experience has been that these often large area places frequently do not have a stop point associated with them and this causes poor routing to the wrong side of the property.

I think it would be prudent that schools be required to have an entry point assigned when creating them, this can then be something that WMEPH helps identify as it already does this for Parking Lot Areas.
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:04 am

If this is true on schools, would it not also be true on any area place?
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby Kartografer » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:31 am

It doesn't take an act of God to make changes to our wiki, only discussion and consensus. I would support requiring at least one entry point on certain categories of area place. Not all, but some. Outdoors and natural features categories (parks, lakes) may not need them, but schools and shopping centers should get them, at least for verification purposes. This is the reason for requiring them on parking lots, as far as I can tell. Many small lots work best if navigation ends in the center, but adding and moving the point is verification that people will be routed to where they should be.

The simple way to require this on the places page is just to put a note next to each category that has been decided in the "area or point" table.
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:40 am

Kartografer wrote:Outdoors and natural features categories (parks, lakes) may not need them, but schools and shopping centers should get them, at least for verification purposes.


Good point, I wasn't thinking about these kind of categories.

If using category dependent, I think that the options should be

Stop Point required
Stop Point not required
Stop Point recommended if area place is navigated to (some parks may need a stop point and others may not)
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby dfw_gis » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:59 pm

Concur. Many categories showing as an AP have a pertinent Stop Point that can occur well within the boundaries. Schools do stand out as such depending on the complexity of the PLR driveways to get to the main entrance. State Parks can do the same to get to the main office.

Enhancing the definition can help in this scenario.
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DrivingWithBill » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:50 pm

Ok good to know the process.

Looking at the National list here are my initial thoughts: Yes, No, Sometimes
Gas Station - Yes
Airport - Yes
Bridge - No
Junction/Interchange - No
Rest Area - Sometimes
Seaport/Marina - Yes
Tunnel - No
Cemetery - Sometimes
College/University -Sometimes
Convention Center - Yes
Embassy - Yes
Fire - Yes
Hospital - Yes
Jail - Yes
Military - No
Police- Yes
School - Yes
Shopping Center - Sometimes
Casino - Yes
Race Track - Sometimes
Stadium - Sometimes
Theme Park - Sometimes
Zoo - Yes
Construction - No
Campground - Yes
Beach - Sometimes
Golf - Yes
Park - Sometimes
Ski - Sometimes
Canal - No
Dam - No
Forest -No
Island - No
River - No
Sea - No
Marsh - No

Did I miss any, I think I’ve seen regional variance but probably best for them to handle. Thoughts?
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby Kartografer » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:24 pm

Hmm, seems like a lot of this comes down to what sort of place it is. Maybe we should let the PNH mods decide on categories and simply add general language on the page about how at least one entry point should be added to an area place that people would navigate to.
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:50 pm

The Places article already says (emphasis mine):

Existing langauge wrote:Entry point

An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the point place marker or the center of the area place. [...] If an entry point is needed, it can be added by [...]

Single

One entry point can be added to all types of places, whether area or point. [...]

This says everything we need already, does it not? But granted it's not especially clear. How about adding something like the following to the Places article, as the first subsection under Entry Point (i.e. just before "Single" and "Multiple"):

Proposed wrote:Entry point

An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the point place marker or the center of the area place. [...] If an entry point is needed, it can be added by [...]

Implicit

Area Places without any entry point at all have an implicit entry point at the center of their area. If this implicit entry point could misroute drivers using the Area Place as a destination, add at least one explicit entry point at an appropriate terminus for routing.


Single

One entry point can be added to all types of places, whether area or point. [...]
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:53 pm

I like that
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby Kartografer » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:59 pm

DwarfLord wrote:The Places article already says (emphasis mine):

Existing langauge wrote:Entry point

An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the point place marker or the center of the area place. [...] If an entry point is needed, it can be added by [...]

Single

One entry point can be added to all types of places, whether area or point. [...]

This says everything we need already, does it not? But granted it's not especially clear. How about adding something like the following to the Places article, as the first subsection under Entry Point (i.e. just before "Single" and "Multiple"):

Proposed wrote:Entry point

An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the point place marker or the center of the area place. [...] If an entry point is needed, it can be added by [...]

Implicit

Area Places without any entry point at all have an implicit entry point at the center of their area. If this implicit entry point could misroute drivers using the Area Place as a destination, add at least one explicit entry point at an appropriate terminus for routing.


Single

One entry point can be added to all types of places, whether area or point. [...]

I also forgot that I wrote this section when drafting the multiple entry points thing. We could strengthen it:
By default, navigation to an area place will stop on the segment closest to the center of the area. If this is not where drivers would stop when bringing people to the place, one or more [[#Entry point|entry points]] maymust be used.

How about just adding section links on "point place marker" and "center of the area" in the section DL quoted, to this section and the corresponding section on where to put point places?
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