Schools and Stop Points

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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:39 pm

Kartografer wrote:OK, so how about my proposal from this morning?


The following look OK?

Area place location details wrote:By default,navigation to an area place will stop on the segment closest to the center of the area. If this is not where drivers would stop when bringing people to the place, each area place has an implicit entry point located at its center. This implicit entry point may or may not yield best routing results, so to ensure optimal routing, it is recommended to add one or more explicit [[#Entry point|entry points]] may be used to all area places, unless these places are except those typically used for display only (lakes, islands, etc.), such as any place in the "Natural Feature" parent category.


Entry point wrote:An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the [[#Location details|point place marker]] or the [[#Location details 2|center of the area place]].
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:18 am

Kartografer wrote:I understand what "implicit entry point" means, but I think it can be confusing. [...] We should try to stick with the terminology given in WME as much as possible, and if an area place doesn't have an entry point, it doesn't have an entry point.

Thanks, I believe I understand your concern.

To me, if it swims like an entry point and quacks like an entry point, it's an entry point (note the lower case 'e' and 'p'). I'm open to the possibility that I'm misjudging the clarity of what is meant by implicit and explicit entry points, and I do recognize that those terms aren't used elsewhere at this time.

On the other hand I think they encapsulate the behavior nicely. And, although perhaps some readers will be lost, others may grasp the concept more quickly?

Anyone else want to offer a sense of how a naïve reader might interpret this? It feels to me that this language is pretty clear, but maybe I'm wrong.
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:35 pm

So, I gather that my proposed language regarding implicit and explicit entry points is not as clear as it could be; oh well :mrgreen:. Editor voludu2 made a suggestion in the USA Wazeopedia Discord channel, incorporated below.

Area place location details wrote:By default, each area place has an implicit Waze routes to an Area Place as if there were an entry point located at its center. This implicit entry point default behavior may or may not yield best routing results. , so To ensure optimal routing, it is recommended to add one or more explicit [[#Entry point|entry points]] to all area places except those typically used for display only, such as any place in the "Natural Feature" parent category.


Entry point wrote:An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the [[#Location details|point place marker]] or the [[#Location details 2|center of the area place]].

In the Discord discussion, some suggested that the topic of how exactly entry points affect routing could use some additional work in a centralized location. I don't disagree, but I would suggest such an effort get a separate forum thread from this one.

Anyway, I hope this new proposed language addresses the concerns raised in this thread...?
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:11 pm

Since the only thing controversial about this seems to have been the choice of words, and that appears to be resolved, I've gone ahead and made the changes live. See the diff.
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:58 pm

Kartografer wrote:Thanks DL! I changed capitalization of area place to make it consistent with the manual of style and the rest of the page

Thanks, and understood.

I am not convinced that it is clearer to the readership to treat terms for specific Waze functionality as common noun phrases. Please see my post inviting discussion on this topic.
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:04 am

If this is true on schools, would it not also be true on any area place?
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:40 am

Kartografer wrote:Outdoors and natural features categories (parks, lakes) may not need them, but schools and shopping centers should get them, at least for verification purposes.


Good point, I wasn't thinking about these kind of categories.

If using category dependent, I think that the options should be

Stop Point required
Stop Point not required
Stop Point recommended if area place is navigated to (some parks may need a stop point and others may not)
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:53 pm

I like that
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:00 pm

DwarfLord wrote:
Kartografer wrote:[...] each region has appointed one or more people as PNH moderators; they are given the authority not just to update the PNH tables but to make those calls in their regions.


Just curious, where should the OP go for a nationwide PNH ruling? If we can accommodate him with a nationwide top-down call, I imagine that would be better than a number of bottom-up calls by regional moderators.


I would suggest bringing it up with their PNH regional moderator to bring up to the group for discussion. My only point that I originally made (in the WMEPH forum) was that the wiki does not state that entry points are required on AP per the wiki. The way it is written is that the editor should decide if an entry point should be added, not have the script require it to be added to turn green.

With the way the current wiki guidance is written, I could see (and support) having WMEPH flag for the editor to review if an entry point is need but it should not prevent any AP from going green but that would probably be a vote among the mods. And ultimately for Mike to decide if it is possible to add.

I actually tend to add an entry point to most of my AP and PP places. I think they have more benefit than negative aspects to it.
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Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:23 pm

DrivingWithBill wrote:How does this move forward? WMEPH said taking it to the wiki, wiki is saying taking it to PNH? I’m confused on how to get this implemented?


Have you brought it up with your PNH moderator to discuss with the rest of the moderators?

NOR is Joyriding
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