Schools and Stop Points

Moderators: MapSir, USA Champs

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DrivingWithBill » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:27 pm

Based off the discussion here, it sounds like Parent Category of "Natural Feature" which people feel they don't need by default an entry point all others are encouraged, is this a good summary?
-Drivingwithbill

this space intentionally left blank
DrivingWithBill
Area Manager
Area Manager
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:09 am
Location: Long Island Native
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:41 pm

I likey
jm6087
US Waze Champs
US Waze Champs
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:05 pm
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 537 times
Been thanked: 1292 times

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:33 pm

DrivingWithBill wrote:Based off the discussion here, it sounds like Parent Category of "Natural Feature" which people feel they don't need by default an entry point all others are encouraged, is this a good summary?

I like the word "encouraged". I don't think it should be regarded as an outright fault/mistake/error if an Area Place does not have an explicit entry point assigned, or that a script should appear to require that editors add them. But I'm good with scripts flagging parent categories other than Natural Feature as "explicit entry point recommended".
DwarfLord
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 2458
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California USA
Has thanked: 1070 times
Been thanked: 1439 times

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby Kartografer » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:27 pm

OK, so how about my proposal from this morning?
[ img ]
Galaxy S9 running Pie on Mint
SM Ohio, AM New Mexico, South Dakota
Wazeopedia projects
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
-John 8:32
Kartografer
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:32 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 711 times

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:39 pm

Kartografer wrote:OK, so how about my proposal from this morning?


The following look OK?

Area place location details wrote:By default,navigation to an area place will stop on the segment closest to the center of the area. If this is not where drivers would stop when bringing people to the place, each area place has an implicit entry point located at its center. This implicit entry point may or may not yield best routing results, so to ensure optimal routing, it is recommended to add one or more explicit [[#Entry point|entry points]] may be used to all area places, unless these places are except those typically used for display only (lakes, islands, etc.), such as any place in the "Natural Feature" parent category.


Entry point wrote:An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the [[#Location details|point place marker]] or the [[#Location details 2|center of the area place]].
DwarfLord
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 2458
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California USA
Has thanked: 1070 times
Been thanked: 1439 times

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby jm6087 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:45 pm

That works for me
jm6087
US Waze Champs
US Waze Champs
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:05 pm
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 537 times
Been thanked: 1292 times

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby Kartografer » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:40 pm

I understand what "implicit entry point" means, but I think it can be confusing. A similar statement had been added about point places a while back that caused newer editors to express confusion, something like "unless a stop point has been added to a point place, the point place is the stop point." We should try to stick with the terminology given in WME as much as possible, and if an area place doesn't have an entry point, it doesn't have an entry point. Apart from that distinction, I like your modifications.
[ img ]
Galaxy S9 running Pie on Mint
SM Ohio, AM New Mexico, South Dakota
Wazeopedia projects
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
-John 8:32
Kartografer
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:32 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 711 times

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:18 am

Kartografer wrote:I understand what "implicit entry point" means, but I think it can be confusing. [...] We should try to stick with the terminology given in WME as much as possible, and if an area place doesn't have an entry point, it doesn't have an entry point.

Thanks, I believe I understand your concern.

To me, if it swims like an entry point and quacks like an entry point, it's an entry point (note the lower case 'e' and 'p'). I'm open to the possibility that I'm misjudging the clarity of what is meant by implicit and explicit entry points, and I do recognize that those terms aren't used elsewhere at this time.

On the other hand I think they encapsulate the behavior nicely. And, although perhaps some readers will be lost, others may grasp the concept more quickly?

Anyone else want to offer a sense of how a naïve reader might interpret this? It feels to me that this language is pretty clear, but maybe I'm wrong.
DwarfLord
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 2458
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California USA
Has thanked: 1070 times
Been thanked: 1439 times

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby DwarfLord » Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:35 pm

So, I gather that my proposed language regarding implicit and explicit entry points is not as clear as it could be; oh well :mrgreen:. Editor voludu2 made a suggestion in the USA Wazeopedia Discord channel, incorporated below.

Area place location details wrote:By default, each area place has an implicit Waze routes to an Area Place as if there were an entry point located at its center. This implicit entry point default behavior may or may not yield best routing results. , so To ensure optimal routing, it is recommended to add one or more explicit [[#Entry point|entry points]] to all area places except those typically used for display only, such as any place in the "Natural Feature" parent category.


Entry point wrote:An entry point (formerly known as a stop point) causes navigation to a place to end on the drivable segment closest to the entry point, rather than the [[#Location details|point place marker]] or the [[#Location details 2|center of the area place]].

In the Discord discussion, some suggested that the topic of how exactly entry points affect routing could use some additional work in a centralized location. I don't disagree, but I would suggest such an effort get a separate forum thread from this one.

Anyway, I hope this new proposed language addresses the concerns raised in this thread...?
DwarfLord
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 2458
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California USA
Has thanked: 1070 times
Been thanked: 1439 times

Re: Schools and Stop Points

Postby Kartografer » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:47 am

Thanks. Yes, I agree with this change. I was glad that we could get some discussion on Discord about it.

As far as I know, the wiki has never defined the exact relationship between the location of the destination (staff have used the term "end flag") and where the route stops. We tend to just pass this knowledge around informally, but it would be great to have documentation. I was thinking that a new section could be added to the routing server page.

Anyhow, unless there are further comments, I'd say we have some consensus on these changes to the places page.
[ img ]
Galaxy S9 running Pie on Mint
SM Ohio, AM New Mexico, South Dakota
Wazeopedia projects
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
-John 8:32
Kartografer
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:32 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio, USA
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 711 times

PreviousNext

Return to US Wiki Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users