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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:12 am
by Fredo-p
kentsmith9 wrote:but you just happen to not have road types (business loops and country roads) in 4 of the columns.

I left those out because Arizona does not use Business loops or Country Roads. Heck, they don't have County Routes either.

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:13 am
by Fredo-p
Wait, wait, wait. I see what you mean. I'm looking at it now.

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:08 am
by Fredo-p
I've updated the table with the missing class types that I thought I did correctly. Does it follow it better?

Also, for the color column, that is meant to indicate what the color of the Arizona DOT APLAN Gis map color scheme represents in regards to Waze color and classification.

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:33 am
by Fredo-p
sketch wrote:
Fredo-p wrote:Okay,
I really, really hope this helps resolve some of the issues that have happened as a result of the very strict and "simple" table I have created. This is the new table I have made. What I did was remove only the road types that are not recognized in Arizona. I have also relabeled the classifications to how the Arizona DOT has labeled them.

Is this a more usable table that follows what is on the road types wiki?
new table.jpg

Not sure if you have an updated table somewhere, but this chart is non-compliant.

This is a hack job, but this is the correct content for your simplified chart.

new table.png

I caught that after Kent's comment. I have already changed the table to reflect the proper class types. Seems I deleted the wrong section of the table code and forgot to preview it first to ensure I edited correctly. Check it now and see if I omitted any other class sections.

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:53 am
by Fredo-p
First off, I want to say I have experienced the greatest brain fart of all time. This entire time I thought this topic was in the map editor section and not the wiki section. (Where the hell is my Ritalin?)

I think it would be important to update the Road Types page with information about the Indian Reservation and how it handles road classifications.

An Indian route is a type of minor numbered road in the United States found on some Indian reservations. The routes are signed by shields featuring a downward-pointing arrowhead with varying designs depending on the state and/or reservation. These routes are part of the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) Road System, which also includes federal aid roads, interior or locally funded roads, highway trust fund roads, tribal public roads, county or township roads, parts of the state highway system, and other federal agency public roads.[1] Maintenance of these routes varies by locality and could be the responsibility of the BIA, a given tribal nation, or both.

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:54 pm
by Fredo-p
daknife wrote:Just a nitpick. Not every state has a champ. A state may have an L6 CM like me but no champ, or may not even have an L5 CM.

Tapatalking via my Galaxy S4

And so the issue is brought to light. I can now see why my idea would seem beyond difficult. If I was to take on the task to gather all 50 states individual classification system into one data pool, could that help any?

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:29 pm
by Fredo-p
sketch wrote:The only thing that should change from one state to the next is the way that state handles its own state highway system (and possibly county routes). By default, all state highways are mH or higher. Some states which have both primary and secondary state highways may wish to demote the secondary state highways into the "State Hwy BUS, SPUR[a], LOOP" column. Some states don't have county routes at all; some states have "county highways" and "county roads" and may wish to make the former mH+ and the latter just Street+.

But the bulk of the guidance remains the same — nothing major changes in FC, except that some states might just use the "Other Freeway" class (as opposed to "Other Freeways and Expressways"), thereby placing all partially-limited-access 'expressways' into the "Other Principal Arterial" class. Michigan does this, for example. That doesn't actually change any FC rule, it simply makes the distinction easier for us in that state. Also, the guidance as to US highways remains the same.

So it isn't really necessary for all 50 states to supplement the FC guidance, as some will not need to change any of the state highway rules at all. If anything, making a state chart should only involve renaming some column headers to match that state's maps and maybe removing a column or row or two if they don't apply. For example, Michigan does not have "Other Expressway", and calls the next two classes "Other Principal Arterial" and "Minor Arterial"; Louisiana has "Freeways/Expressways" and "Principal Arterial" and "Minor Arterial", and "Parish Roads" (not county routes), no Interstate business routes, no CONN or ALT (I think) state highways, and so forth.

That is why I was thinking of making a database of all 50 states so we all can see how each state uses the class system and what specific naming they use.

If you look at the table I made for how Arizona names their class system, you will see how much has been removed (not observed).

If anything, IMO to have an efficient FC across the nation, it would be important to ensure that Interstates, Highways, and Freeways all have the same FC. Anything other than that would be dealt with via the States FC system. Since we want to ensure that Waze has proper routing on long distances, this should be the most important thing to focus on. Once that is established, we can then focus on the lesser class types, until everyone feels satisfied with the changes.

The major issue, as stated before, is the rural roadways and Indian Reservations. But rural roadways can vary state to state as well. One state may utilize rural roads and ensure they are paved and marked. But another state may not see them as important, or have the funding, and have their road conditions unpaved or needing major repairs, thus possibly routing to other, less high level class roads.

In the west valley (Tonopah/Buckeye) we ran into this very problem. The Town of Tonopah classified a CR as a MH. The problem is that halfway through the road becomes unpaved. Contacting the FC Coordinator revealed that it would take months to change the classification of that road, and a visit to the Towns City Hall to start the change process.

If this CR where to link to another state, and that state had it paved and marked with signs, it would cause problems with routing. We, in Arizona, are already aware of the issues that rural municipalities handle classifications. That is why we changed everything to the states FC first, then are going back and reviewing the rural areas to see if there is a better way to reroute some of the roads through reclassifying the road itself. We have to play the part of DOT and make the needed changes ahead of the DOT. They are already preparing to meet for their FC update with all the cities.

As soon as that meeting happens, the FC Coordinator will advise me of the changes and I will pass that information to the rest of the AZ editors to make the needed changes. Sadly, it takes at least a few months to see the changes come through.

Just want to make it clear, I'm not talking about making a table in the wiki. Just a database that anyone, or the champs, could look at in aiding on decision making since many states don't have Champs and high ranking editors throughout all of their state. I was under the impression that there where a lot of high ranking editors in every state, but since that isn't the case, the more the information available, the better.

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:24 am
by Fredo-p
With that Tampa Blvd and Dale Mabry Hwy intersection, I think there should be an AGC for the turns. If you notice, the right turns do not have a light to follow, so traffic on that turn will be opposite of the road it starts at. Until the light turns red and traffic backs up enough to not allow the right turn.

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:45 am
by Fredo-p
t0cableguy wrote:I'll agree to disagree on this one. I have not seen a single MP at the tampa bay/ dale mabry intersection.

Ah, so it's a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" situation.

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:47 pm
by Fredo-p
Avoid dirt road.

What most drivers think they will avoid

What some rural and SUPER RURAL municipalities and CDPs have as the only access in and out of their area and have an actual FC type given