US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

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Re: US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

Postby PesachZ » Mon May 18, 2015 5:20 am

Was has analyzed this route and told us that this is working as designed, based on specific a proprietary algorithm that happens to be effecting this particular interchange. It is not guaranteed to continue to work or even be able to be replicated elsewhere. The specific details of why this happened were technical and obviously not shared.

Therefore it should not be used as an example. To ensure it continues to work it is recommended to be upgraded to MH for proper continuity.

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Re: US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

Postby PhantomSoul » Sat May 09, 2015 1:02 am

Did you try the route with much further end points? Road type continuity strongly suggests that connector road should be MH since its is not controlled-access and connects Fwy to MH/Fwy.
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Re: US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

Postby PhantomSoul » Wed May 13, 2015 2:36 pm

Do we know if the use of a relatively short PS connector between highways as part of a longer trip in which we would otherwise expect PS roads to be pruned is in spec for how navigation is supposed to work?
I mean it's ultimately up to you guys here, but it's also very possible that the PS segments working here is the result of a bug in the routing system - a bug which could be silently fixed at any time, thus breaking any configurations relying upon it. For that reason, I would strongly recommend not doing anything that would encourage similar treatments elsewhere by other editors, even if it means not documenting this in the wikis or even just plain not doing it here either.
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US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

Postby Poncewattle » Wed May 06, 2015 12:47 pm

On Sunday, I did a route between Woodhaven Road in PA to Great Adventure and was pleasantly surprised to get a route near Trenton that worked really well -- avoided tolls (that I didn't have set to do so) and was faster.

https://www.waze.com/livemap?lon=-74.44 ... =-74.44181

(You may have to select Sunday at noon to see the route since at rush hours it probably sucks)

But during the actual drive I saw it go across a primary street which sort of surprised me. I looked at the classification maps and couldn't tell really would it should be.

Regardless, my question is, should it be higher than a PS mainly because it's basically a feeder between two freeways? (well, SR-29 is shortly a MH in that area)

These are the segments I am referring to (S Warren Street)

https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=usa&lo ... 0,61834411

There's a ramp from US-1 that dumps to a PS. It's clearly not intended for local traffic only. Therefore to give Waze an easier time calculating a route that includes that -- especially on longer drives -- should its classification be upgraded?
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Re: US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

Postby Poncewattle » Thu May 07, 2015 2:59 am

Wow, thank you for the comprehensive explanation. I know you spent some time on it.

I ran several more scenarios thinking I could make it fail by making the route longer, but was unable to. I stretched the destination out to the shore and kept backing up the origin further west into PA until it really made no sense to go that way but more sense just to go down the PA Tpk.

ps, lines at Six Flags weren't bad but Kingda Ka kept failing with technical difficulties whilst we were queued up for it (I have an English niece visiting for two weeks, so getting my Brit-speak on). We never did get to ride it. :-(
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Re: US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

Postby Poncewattle » Sun May 10, 2015 1:50 pm

I think it might make a difference with a route long enough but the east end points are limited by the ocean and further west you go the Turnpike sweeps to the north and hence ends up being the smarter choice for routing regardless.

It's an interesting technical exercise so was hoping honestly for a demonstrated failure as a learning exercise. But alas, didn't find one.
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Re: US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

Postby qwaletee » Fri May 08, 2015 8:48 pm

That doesnt make sense, Kobe. The longer the route, the more it prunes, not the other way around. If it isn't pruned for long routes, then it won't get pruned for short routes.
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Re: US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

Postby qwaletee » Wed May 13, 2015 6:05 am

Kobe,

It isn't a concern. I just think you reversed the applicability of pruning to local versus long distance routes. Pruning occurs when Waze ignores lower-typed roads for the bulk of the route. For a medium distance trip, it may ignore street and primary street. For a long trip, it may start ignoring minor highways. You would not find pruning for very short "local" trips at all.

As to PZ's discussion of preference, I'm not aware of road type playing a role preference, at least not directly. Waze will prefer two things:
1) speed, based on various combinations of measurements
2) special rules to eliminate unwanted behavior, including "smoothing"/detour prevention

There's also some evidence that it gives preference to road segments you've traveled on previously. Indirectly, road type plays a role in preference, because when Waze is missing speed data for a segment, it will make some assumptions based on road type.

If there's some aspect of "preference" that I'm missing, please elucidate.
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Re: US-1 to SR-29 connector classification

Postby qwaletee » Thu May 14, 2015 6:35 am

Kobe, I'm not expressing anything about this specific instance. i'm addressing isolated comments within your explanation. We know based on previous communication from Waze and many past routing tests that short routes don't use pruning, long routes do, and an isolated low-rank segment has been seen in at least some cases to apparently block a route from consideration due to pruning. Might that have changed? Might there be outlier cases where routes do not get pruned? Yes, possible... PZ seems to be addressing that.
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