Speed Limits

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Re: Speed Limits

Postby aBshield » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:20 pm

As discussed on GHO, I'm looking to undertake a small project to set SLs on SR-35 on the barrier island (approx location). This is an interesting case since speed limits, and their physical signs, have been historically adjusted twice a year. The speed limit is reduced during the summer months given the shore traffic volume per NJDOT traffic regulation (research courtesy of PleaseDriveFast).

I'm not sure if there's additional cases in the state, but I think we should discuss guidance for at least this case. This area sees exceptional volume during the summer months. Please note that BOTG indicates that the signs have NOT been changing for the last couple of years. This is most likely due to the heavy construction and recovery from Hurricane Sandy. Knowing the area and history, I'd expect this practice to resume in subsequent years as recovery winds down, but that's unconfirmed. So the path forward for this short-term project is probably just to match current signage, which is currently at the "summer" limits. Unless there's objections, I'll get started with this.

That said, perhaps we should still set a precedence. Our initial options as I see them:
  1. Populate the "summer" speed limits which are usually active from May to September. While this is the minority time frame, it also represents a significant majority of the yearly volume.
  2. Populate the "winter" speed limits which are usually active from September to May. This time frame represents the majority potion of the year, but is overcome in yearly volume by the summer months. Visitors unfamiliar with the area are also significantly less during this time.
  3. A designated party or AM etc. changes the speed limits twice a year to match anticipated signage or BOTG. Street view confirmations won't be possible every year given the frequency of their updates.
Personally, I would recommend option 3 to avoid a UR factory in either season. I'd volunteer myself to keep watch over this with the assistance of >L3 editors for unlock support. I usually have this in my driving area, especially when the changes would need to be made. There's also a possibility of applying to expand my AM into this area as well, which would bring this within my official duties anyway as I see it.

Option 3 may be controversial with Waze guidance on SLs. Not sure; hence the question here. If recurring changes are not recommended, and static SLs desired, I'd recommend option 1:

  1. There's significantly more volume potentially using Waze during the summer months.
  2. Visitor volume unfamiliar with the area is also significantly higher.
  3. The "summer" speed limits are more conservative.
  4. Speed traps are much more prevalent during the summer months.
Awaiting guidance.
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Re: Speed Limits

Postby aBshield » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:58 pm

So, should I proceed to slowly roll this out for SR-35? Despite the NJ DOT reference, the "summer" SLs are currently displayed per BOTG. I figure it makes sense to start with them since they're unlikely to change at this point until September at the earliest, and they'll be ready for the summer shore traffic in case Waze flips the switch.
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Re: Speed Limits

Postby antgoesmarching » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:09 am

Thanks for the update! Since a majority of us will be limited to the "other roads" tab without requesting unlocks, could you provide a little more detail on completion of this tab? For example, Can we add rows under each county to reflect township updates by FC? Tracking progress on primary streets, streets, etc within an entire county seems hard to quantify/track as a community.
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Re: Speed Limits

Postby mrsmith66 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:22 am

I'd like to suggest a local NJ change to the national guidance about SL on AGC and ramps.

The national rule is:
1. If it has its own dedicated posted regulation SL, use it.
2. If the SL before and after are the same, use it
3. If it physically looks and functions as a ramp, leave it blank, otherwise use the SL of the segment feeding into the AGC (s-in)

I would suggest this instead.
1. If it has its own dedicated posted regulation SL, use it.
2. If the speed limit before and after are the same, use it.
2a. If the segment is between the sides of a split road (US-130N and US-130S, for example), use the lower SL for the road on either side of the highway.
3. If the SL of the exit segment (s-out) is 15 or greater LESS than the SL of the entrance segment (s-in), use the SL of the exit segment (s-out). (ex. 55 to 35, use 35)
3a. If the SL of the exit segment (s-out) is 14 or less LESS than the SL of the entrance segment (s-in), use the SL of the entrance segment (s-in). (ex. 55 to 45, use 55)
3b. If the SL of the exit segment (s-out) is GREATER than the SL of the entrance segment (s-in), use the SL of the entrance segment (s-in). (ex. 35 to 55, use 35)

Reasoning:
The NJ state speed limit law is vague on AGC and ramps. Essentially, the law says that rural non-residential roads are 50, rural residential streets are 35, and non-rural residential streets are 25, UNLESS a level of government has chosen a different limit for reasons of safety or other local conditions and it has been approved by the state.
This sets up situations where the streets vary widely in limit. For example, some roads off of US-130 (which is 50 or 55) are as low as 25. Some even as low as 15 in some gated communities. In those situations, I believe that the safest thing to do for motorists is to give them early warning that they are above the "new" speed limit. In this case I'm thinking of right-turn lanes, though it would apply to left-turn lanes as well. If it's a true ramp then I'd leave the speed limit off per national guidance.
Similarly, if a road crosses a split highway we want to let the driver who is crossing into the lower zone know as early as possible that there is a change. Here the local regulation may or may not be vague, as they tend to say things like "from XXX to US-130 it's 35, then from US-130 to yyy it's 25", or "from 500 feet west of xxx to the center of the intersection with US-130 it's 35, then from the center of US-130 to the center of yyy st it's 25").
In general, in vague situations we want to err on the side of telling motorists about a reduced SL as early as we can, in order to promote safety and avoid tickets.

I realize that in reality, there are very few speed traps set on AGC or ramps, and anybody who takes them at full speed limit is probably unsafe too. I just want to avoid the situation where someone has a great drop in SL without warning.

What do you think?
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Re: Speed Limits

Postby PhantomSoul » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:38 am

So the initial idea behind the SL sheet was to track the progress of entering SLs for state managed roads. I'm ok with adding more local roads, but at this time I don't have the resources needed at this time to comprehensively track them.
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Speed Limits

Postby PleaseDriveFast » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:57 pm

As we're in a few weeks in from the editor being update to add Speed Limit(SL) data, I wanted to provide an update from Waze HQ.

Waze HQ has begun applying a prediction algorithm to the NA Servers adding SLs to segments without any. It is going through this process slowly, and there's no direction on what triggers this prediction process algorithm. However, it has occurred in neighboring states - New York and Pennsylvania.

Our job as the editing community is to make sure any SL entered is verified by an editor. We know that these imported SLs will not be enabled in the app whenever the SL feature goes live. They physically need to be edited by an editor.

So let's see how far we can get in adding SLs prior to any Waze import. I have a few resources below to help us track our progress:
NJ Speed Limits Status Sheet: you may need to request edit access from PhantomSoul
-NJ DoT Speed Limit webpage
-WME Color Highlights script: Useful script to highlight roads with unverified or missing SLs

Please make sure to track any progress within the NJ Speed Limit Status Sheet so we know what areas we need to focus on. The primary verification of SLs should be done using Waze Street View (WSV).

Use of other sources such as municipal ordinances, or road surveys, should be used as a last resort if unable to verify through the methods above. When in doubt, leave it blank.

I'll continue to update this post if you find relevant information and/or add it to the NJ Speed Limit Status sheet. Happy hunting and let the State Managers know how we can help.


Edit 2/10: Updated guidance around ordinances.
Edit 4/13: Update guidance around ordinances per previous GHO conversations in the NJ Editors Hangout.
Last edited by PleaseDriveFast on Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Speed Limits

Postby PleaseDriveFast » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:46 am

PhantomSoul wrote:So the initial idea behind the SL sheet was to track the progress of entering SLs for state managed roads. I'm ok with adding more local roads, but at this time I don't have the resources needed at this time to comprehensively track them.


Agreed, which is why I was opening it up to the community. I'm with having the majority of editors working and updating as they can and tracking it.

antgoesmarching wrote:For example, Can we add rows under each county to reflect township updates by FC? Tracking progress on primary streets, streets, etc within an entire county seems hard to quantify/track as a community.


The majority of roads are within this category, so anything to make tracking this easier by the community is welcomed IMO. And when you say FC, you should be referring to segment type which in most cases is determined by FC.

Now since I'm based in Somerset County, I can create a template as to what feels appropriate for that county and everyone can copy off of that spreadsheet.
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Re: Speed Limits

Postby PleaseDriveFast » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:53 pm

Agree with Q. Situations such as these are up to States to determine what works best. Knowing NJ DOT maintains the road and there's a clear date on when SLs are active, we can assign responsibility to the area. SL updates can be timed with the date change. I'm voting for option 3.

We should also consider the NJ DOT reference when SV is not current.


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Re: Speed Limits

Postby PleaseDriveFast » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:46 am

aBshield wrote:So, should I proceed to slowly roll this out for SR-35? Despite the NJ DOT reference, the "summer" SLs are currently displayed per BOTG. I figure it makes sense to start with them since they're unlikely to change at this point until September at the earliest, and they'll be ready for the summer shore traffic in case Waze flips the switch.


Beta appears to be in release candidate mode which means SLs could be active very soon. If you, or another source, did BOTG to confirm SL signs, I'm fine with using the current summer speeds. Let's move forward with that unless there's objections.

qwaletee wrote:A little too complicated, especially for the benefit. Certainly drop 2a, why is it necessary? And why create cutoffs based on great reductions in speed versus minor ones? Usually, those are posted anyway, and for true turns, drivers will have to drop (typically drivers take turns under 20mph).


Agree here. The purpose of Waze currently is to help avoid traffic not to make sure you're following the law. While I agree NJ laws are vague, is it worth having local guidance when the value in creating one is minimal compared to what the national guidelines are. None of our Northeast neighbors have special handling on AGC and ramps, and am not yet convinced we need to create special rules for such.
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Re: Speed Limits

Postby PleaseDriveFast » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:19 pm

For those actively adding SLs, there's a new tool to help you create URs while driving to help identify where the SL changes. I encourage you to test it out: https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=819&t=182751.
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