Irvington - Interesting UR

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Re: Irvington - Interesting UR

Postby aBshield » Thu May 26, 2016 4:14 am

Just to echo and summarize the GHO conversation we just had.

Nothing against the neighborhood itself, but I would usually prefer to stay on the freeway segments. I wouldn't be enough for me to drop a UR, but I would think the provided route was a bit undesirable. That's just from driving in my car perspective. It also means that I know the area, and can just ignore the instruction and let Waze recalculate.

That said, I would agree that Waze mechanics should be able to capture average wait times through traffic lights in an area like this. I'm not seeing any major time differences between the routes in a sampling of time frames, including when the UR was dropped.

Also on a technical level, the latest route penalties draft identifies that toll roads yield a low penalty even when the "avoid tolls" option is off in the client app. If a fix was to be attempted, you'd have PS segment type pruning vs. toll road low penalties. I'd be concerned this fix, even if successful, would hold up in the future if these parameters are changed or tweaked by Waze going forward. As such, I think anytime we undermine the Waze routing system, it should be for a good reason. I'm not sure this fits that category.

As I'm implying here, I do think this may set a bad precedence, especially if we bring in a committee to determine whether certain neighborhoods are "dangerous." That's highly subjective, and perhaps could be perceived as offensive to fellow wazers or editors. It's a conversation that will result in lose-lose IMHO. Countries with real war zones and danger areas are one thing, but in the USA, I don't think we're in the same category.

Given the lack of major time difference, the possible intrusive solution, the possibility that said solution wouldn't stand the test of time reliably, the saved toll money, and the precedent of undermining the Waze routing system for negligible or controversial results, I'd say leave as-is.
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Re: Irvington - Interesting UR

Postby NJMedic2535 » Fri May 27, 2016 4:36 pm

Well, Irvington isn't a warzone, but it's not the safest city in the world.

Just to make a point - the EMS building at Rosehill & Norwood has bullet holes in the sign and garage door (collateral damage from a drive-by on that block), I was on scene at an MVA-turned-assault-turned-shooting at Union and Chancellor and the KFC at Lyons and Cleremont is good for an overdose or assault any night of the week.

All that said, reading what you folks have discussed here and in the GHO - breaking the map to trigger a time difference to prevent routing through here probably isn't worth it.

Just to make the opposite point - our fireplace is being rebuilt and we're getting a barnwood mantle from the recycled lumberyard on Cordier St. I had no qualms about showing the kids around where I worked my first Paramedic job. Besides, the really sketchy neighborhood is here: https://goo.gl/RAFwpp .
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Irvington - Interesting UR

Postby PhantomSoul » Thu May 26, 2016 3:44 am

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Long story short, reporter complains of persistently getting this route despite their claims of it being slow due to traffic lights and perceivably dangerous due to the neighborhood quality.

Personally, I'm not buying the first argument; Waze's junction metrics supersede most conventional concerns about routes with traffic lights. The second argument is a little more subjective; I live in a neighboring town, and while Irvington certainly isn't the richest community in the state, it's definitely not a war zone either. As such, I don't feel it meets Waze's criteria for danger exclusions. Further, by routing this way and entering the Parkway northbound at interchange 143 (near Lyons Ave), you avoid the toll collected at the northbound approach of interchange 142 (at I-78), since the 143 northbound entrance is free. I'm ok with being routed this way; it saves me a $1.50 toll.

What are your thoughts? Is this a worthy case to consider downgrading that section of Lyons Ave either by changing it to Primary Street (brute force approach) or by lowering its priority (may require that section to be deleting and re-created)? One thing we may want to consider, if we do this, is what kind of precedent it would set for other subjectively non-preferred routes. Would that mean that every such complaint would need a review-by-committee of factors such as traffic light frequency/density and neighborhood quality? Would that be undermining Waze's route-finding system?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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