It's been a while (six months) since I was up there, but I worked EMS in Jersey City for two years.

From my experience there's no reason you can't stay on I-78 over the turnpike and then get on the local lanes.

One mile away we get a sign that says 78W keep L; 1/9/22 keep R. Next we have 95North keep R, 95South keep L; Sign at the 78/Tpk split simply indicate I-78 to the left, 95 south center, 95 north right and 1/9/22 far right.
I can see how that sign would maybe drive people nuts for 95 south being told to keep left and then the exit goes off right from the center lane. Not what this UR is about, though.
Next sign, as you are about to pass over the Tpk, splits the right lane into 95N and 1/9/22/Airport. Sign over the left lanes tell you 95 south is in 1/4 mile.
Sign as you finish passing over Tpke is for the 95S exit on the right and plain 78W on the left.

There are no signs differentiating 78W Express from 78W Local until *after* the toll plaza at the splits there. 78W Express is the two rightmost lanes; Port Newark (exit left), South 9, 21 to 22 are served by the center two lanes as well as 78W Local (sign is farthest Right here, doesn't exit right anywhere near here); North 1/9 is the far right one lane exit. As long as a driver made it into the left-hand lane of the center roadway they'd make it to 78Local.

I'd agree that a driver all the way to the left toll lane is going to have a hard time making it to 78Local.

If we remove the stub and enable the turn that are currently causing the routing over to the far right to reach the local lanes, would the user getting a "keep left Exit 14: I-78 W / Newark / Clinton" (does that need a "to"?) (https://goo.gl/NG5Vbf) get enough advance warning for the "in XXX feet keep right to I-78 LOCAL W / Airport / US-1-9 / US-22" to keep a little right in the toll booths?


*Note - using SV to refresh my memory. If the signs have changed to indicate specific routes for Express and Local I'm dead wrong.

I agree with everything you're saying about signage and expectations.

Why, though, would we need such a complicated solution when removing the stub construct and blocked turn at the west end of this segment https://goo.gl/jOId3h would allow Waze to calculate the fastest route to 78W express and local? Users would get a heads-up about a keep right to 78 local far enough before the tolls, would they not?

I believe the construct at the GSP is necessary because the signs are at (and a little before?) the toll plaza and exit 142B is essentially right on top of the plaza. You just can't get there unless you're all the way right. Similar situation, but different IMHO.

PhantomSoul wrote:

NJMedic2535 wrote:Why, though, would we need such a complicated solution when removing the stub construct and blocked turn at the west end of this segment https://goo.gl/jOId3h would allow Waze to calculate the fastest route to 78W express and local? Users would get a heads-up about a keep right to 78 local far enough before the tolls, would they not?

All routes connecting to Routes 1-9, 21, 22, and the airport are specifically signed to use the longer northern loop, not the shortest route. Because of this, Waze should give you directions that way, regardless of which way is faster, or which way you actually go. This is the cause of the whole dilemma to begin with.

And removing the construct to solve the problem with getting a looping route from 78 to 78 will cause Waze to use the shorter/faster route that doesn't match the signs to 1-9/21/22.
Thank you for your patience in helping me see that part!

In that case ... other than a complicated setup, I've got nothing useful.

So, the UR is specifically about getting the right-hand route (the larger northern loop) for a route that both actually goes to I-78 LOCAL W and the driver expects to continue on I-78, for whatever reason. The approaching signs clearly have I-78 W pointing to the left-hand route (the more direct southern route), and don't specify express or local, so one would would assume, like this driver did, that either roadway is to the left (though if you ask me, I think the configuration and the signage actually implies that if you're going through on I-78, you should use the express lanes. However, this is definitely not clear on the approach).

That being said, in my mind at least, it's not so much about which way you could go, as you can clearly go either way for either the local or express lanes. Instead, it's about getting directions from Waze that correspond with the way the approaching signage is trying to steer you, based on the road you're expecting to either connect to or continue on, right? This would mean that we would need a long parallel segment from the express/local split, along the local segment, all the way to past the furthest exit described on the sign approaching the longer northern loop, which I believe is the airport exit. Alternatively, we would need a super long junction box that would prevent any route to any of those exits when approaching from the more-direct southern route.

This is similar to the scenario we used on GSP north approaching Exit 142 in Hillside with the right-hand loop approaching the tolls. Sure you can get into Exit 142B from either approach, but the approaching signage explicitly says to keep right ahead of the tolls, so we configured the Waze directions to reflect that. The only difference there is that the parallel/loop there was much shorter, making it a far less controversial issue.

NJMedic2535 wrote:Why, though, would we need such a complicated solution when removing the stub construct and blocked turn at the west end of this segment https://goo.gl/jOId3h would allow Waze to calculate the fastest route to 78W express and local? Users would get a heads-up about a keep right to 78 local far enough before the tolls, would they not?

All routes connecting to Routes 1-9, 21, 22, and the airport are specifically signed to use the longer northern loop, not the shortest route. Because of this, Waze should give you directions that way, regardless of which way is faster, or which way you actually go. This is the cause of the whole dilemma to begin with.

Yeah. It's a hot mess...