State Rte 27

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Re: State Rte 27

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:58 am

jondrush wrote:It sure doesn't look like a major to me, with every business driveway dumping onto it and no cross traffic controls.
+1

PhantomSoul wrote:New Jersey officially specs out State Rte 27 in Middlesex County (also known in many neighborhoods as Lincoln Hwy) as a non-limited-access primary arterial route, which would translate in Waze to the red major highway.
Where are you getting that translation from USDOT"Principal Arterial - Other"/NJDOT "Rural/Urban Principal Arterial" to Waze "Major Highway"?
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Re: State Rte 27

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:50 pm

As long as there is a state translation matrix, I'm not touching it...

There is a major debate going on about where the dividing line on Waze types about limited access/non-limited access is on the Waze Road types. The only way I see it being resolved is by Waze Staff intervention. As such, I will not be providing guidance due to that debate, but I will say the NJ translation matrix does not match the NY or CT matrix and there have been discussions about other NJ roads were traced to issues related to the routing engine and the Waze road types those roads have been assigned in NJ.
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Re: State Rte 27

Postby jondrush » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:04 am

It sure doesn't look like a major to me, with every business driveway dumping onto it and no cross traffic controls.
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Re: State Rte 27

Postby jondrush » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:25 am

Meets the freeway definition in my eyes. Prolly the only reason no one did it was because it is so short and the lights at the ends. When a freeway ends at a light, I sometimes change the final segment to Major highway just to give a visual head up that the road is changing styles.
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State Rte 27

Postby PhantomSoul » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:12 pm

Ok guys, let's talk.

New Jersey officially specs out State Rte 27 in Middlesex County (also known in many neighborhoods as Lincoln Hwy) as a non-limited-access primary arterial route, which would translate in Waze to the red major highway.

We seem to have some disagreement with this, and I get that, since Rte 27 isn't nearly as friendly to thru traffic as nearby Rte 1 or the Turnpike, but should we also maybe consider that the state designates this as a primary road to help ease congestion on Rte 1? When we look at the bigger picture of the state's roadways, it looks like there are 3 primary roadways (SR-27, US-1, and US-130) plus the Turnpike, that cover the very heavily traveled route between New Brunswick/cities north and Trenton/Philadelphia/cities south (SR-27 becomes US-206 south of Princeton)

So my question is do we downgrade State Rte 27 to a minor highway simple because it is not a divided highway a la US-1 or US-130 but it goes through a suburban neighborhood? Sure Rte 27 has a lot of traffic lights, but most of them are also optimally timed in a way to keep through traffic on Rte 27 moving.

When we change a road like this from state design, it seems to me like we would be downgrading just because of traffic concerns, and considering that Waze handles traffic in a completely different way, based on live input from devices on people's cars, when finding a route, I would think that it would be improper to mark a route as less than it's intended to be just because we wouldn't go that way because of traffic.

What does everyone else think?

PS We seem to have this same disagreement for the never-constructed section of State Rte 18 between New Brunswick and I-287. The state suggests that Hoes Ln and River Rd (CR-622) in Piscataway, and Easton Ave (CR-527) in New Brunswick and Somerset all be set up like primary arterial routes to co-handle traffic between New Brunswick and I-287 instead. While none of them are as fast as say, Rte 1, all of them do have their signals timed to optimize through traffic flow.
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Re: State Rte 27

Postby PhantomSoul » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:37 pm

Ok. Minor highway it is.

I guess the caveat with the NJ diagrams is that they're really design specs, and it doesn't necessarily mean that a road was actually implemented the way it's described there.
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Re: State Rte 27

Postby PhantomSoul » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:46 pm

PS - To me, limited access highway (or freeway) is the most obvious type and means two things: 1) No intersections, whether signaled or not, and 2) No store driveways that are not partitioned off into a discrete service road.

This makes roads like SR-24 (east of I-287) and SR-18 (south of US-9) and all interstates Waze Freeways, while roads like US-1, SR-17, or SR-4 (east of SR-208) and SR-208 would be Waze Major Highways because they either have intersections or non-partitioned-off driveways/direct turns into neighboring subdivision streets.
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Re: State Rte 27

Postby PhantomSoul » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:47 pm

They are, since I last checked anyway.

In other news, however, is there any reason SR-133 near Hightstown should not be a freeway? With the exception of traffic signals at either end of it, it totally has limited access...
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State Rte 27

Postby PhantomSoul » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:18 pm

The segments you have in there are at least close enough to not cause errors. I think the new overpass/interchange there is supposed to open with the new Exit 8 interchange on the Turnpike with the dual-roadway widening they're doing in the area.

In any case, its all going to have to be redone then anyway.
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Re: State Rte 27

Postby WeeeZer14 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:16 pm

By 3 out of 4 measures we often kick around, 27 would be a minor hwy in my book. And I've driven most of it way too many times so I'd barely classify it as a Primary Street some days ;)

Simple US = major, state = minor method => Minor
Road quality measure (not divided, lots of driveways) => Minor
DOT functional (Principle Arterial) => Major
Part of NHS? (yes = Major, no = Minor at best) => Minor

AndyPoms wrote:Where are you getting that translation from USDOT"Principal Arterial - Other"/NJDOT "Rural/Urban Principal Arterial" to Waze "Major Highway"?

In the NJ Road types topic, this was proposed as a starting point and no one has suggested major changes to-date.
NJDOT Classification = Waze road type
Rural Interstate = Freeway
Rural Principal Arterial = Major Highway
Rural Minor Arterial = Minor Highway
Rural Major Collector = Primary Street
Rural Minor Collector = Primary Street
Rural Local = Street
Urban Interstate = Freeway
Urban Freeway/Expressway = Freeway (or Major Highway)
Urban Principal Arterial = Major Highway
Urban Minor Arterial = Minor Highway
Urban Collector = Primary Street
Urban Local = Street
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