[Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)  Topic is solved

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[Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)

Postby hawkeygoal » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:06 am

Greetings -

Proposing this section for addition to the Illinois state wiki page.


The goal of the update is to provide guidance to editors on mapping turns in Illinois and aiding in responses to update requests. Illinois law differs from other states and we have not addressed this in clear guidance on the state page.

The text is intended to be added as a section to the Illinois state page.

The text outlines considerations in Illinois for left turns which may differ from other states, specifically covering topics such as turning left over a traversable median. It also outlines the specific requirements for U-Turns in Illinois as well as guidance when to and when not to include U-Turns at junctions in WME.
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Re: [Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)

Postby ruggles76 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:04 pm

Thanks for taking the time to pull this together. I agree on the need for guidance. This is one place where I much prefer Google Maps' approach over Waze's; when GM wants you to make a U-turn it simply says "make a u-turn when able", then recalculates when you do. At least, that's what it did the last time I used it.

Another very common example I run into, where U-turns need to be permitted, is on roads or in subdivisions where there are no loops (such as blocks). When Waze wants to turn you around, often the only place it can find is a dead end, where U-turns area always allowed by the routing engine. There are places in my neighborhood where drivers get this every time they come out of their driveway, because of the Waze 180 at the start of a trip. In some cases it will take Waze a mile or more to turn around when there are plenty of places before then where a U-turn would be safe and legal before then.

While that's just an annoyance for local residents, it's really a pain for non locals. You don't realize Waze wants you to do a U-turn, so you merrily follow the route to a dead-end, and THEN you get the "make a U turn" command.

Once in my early days of using Waze, because of a misplaced (by Waze) and poorly marked entrance ramp in an unfamiliar area of Tennessee, I apparently missed the turn from my gas stop back onto the Interstate, and Waze took me down a 10-mile long dark winding mountain road into Appalachia. I assumed this was the intended routing, figured I must have gotten off the interstate someplace where I couldn't get right back on. After a couple of turns and 10 miles in, Waze said "make a U turn" and sent me back the way I came, to the place I should have gotten back on the interstate in the first place. Wasted close to an hour and nearly caused me to write off ever using Waze again.

That was the worst case, but even now, not far from home, I get caught by this occasionally, thinking Waze knows a back way I don't (because it often does).

I would advocate enabling legal U-turns on streets anywhere where the road geometry would cause Waze would do this, i.e. where a U-turn is either the only option, or the one most drivers would use to avoid a long detour. On "tree-shaped" dead-end subdivisions (one main road, side roads but no connections between them, so no blocks to go around), I'd put them at any intersection that met the state guidelines. On long dead-end streets with no intersecting streets, there are often places where turnarounds are enabled by the road geometry (e.g. short side spur/cul de sac). The spur might not meet the criteria for mapping in Waze, but in some cases a junction node with a U-turn allowed would still be appropriate. These wouldn't even legally be considered U-turns in some cases, for example if it's a semicircular spur the law would consider it two turns (left/right or right/left) rather than a U-turn. So the legal requirements for visual distance, hills, etc. wouldn't need to be met.

There are places in my subdivision where there are triangular junctions with a (sometimes fairly large) island. These are commonly used for legal turnarounds as well. Before Waze could handle U-turns, I remapped some of the critical ones from a "T" junction to match the road geometry, and that gave us much shorter routings, saving a couple miles in many cases. But the downside was that verbal instructions were harder to follow, you really had to be looking at the map. I'd prefer to put them back to T's and enable U-turns, that would be the best of both worlds.

I'd also suggest judicious use of U-turns on PLRs. As we get more and more PPs mapped in strip malls, we also need (and get) more and more PLRs to get good routings to them those PP's. This is one of the big advantages of Waze - it can get you to exactly where you want to go. But because we tend to map PLRs sparsely, if we don't enable U-turns we often end up sending someone back out onto the main road just to get from one point in a strip mall to another that's "behind" them. U-turns are usually pretty easy to do in parking lots if a driver knows he/she needs to make one, and as private installations the state laws don't apply. A driver may not make the U-turn exactly at the place or in the way that Waze suggests, but the verbal instruction tells them what they need to know - the place they want is behind them.
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Re: [Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)

Postby ruggles76 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:00 am

One further situation for potential inclusion is the ambiguously signed left-turn lane, such as this one.

Is this legal or not? I'm not certain. In this case it served no purpose and Waze was generating funny routings with U-turns to avoid a left turn light at the prior intersection, so the obvious solution was to prohibit it. But I have seen signs like this (left turn only) in conjunction with signage both prohibiting (No U Turn) and allowing ("U-turn traffic must yield to traffic from left") U-turns, so I'm not sure if this is definitively legal, definitively illegal, or ambiguous. In most cases the sign stands alone, and it doesn't specifically prohibit a U turn, but it can be interpreted as restricting the lane usage.

I'd vote for prohibiting U-turns in these cases unless there is a clear indication from other signage that they are legal.
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Re: [Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)

Postby Bigbear3764 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:40 am

ruggles76 wrote:One further situation for potential inclusion is the ambiguously signed left-turn lane, such as this one.

Is this legal or not?


Legal, unless signed prohibiting it.
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Re: [Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)

Postby jdeyoung » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:23 pm

One other condition that merits enabled u-turns is where they are considered as expected/required. Use of enabled U-turns at designated crossovers on a waze un-divided street helps provide the actual guidance for what the user expects when their destination is on the opposite side of the street where a median separation exists. Use of this exception case should be limited to situations where the addition of 1 or 2 extra PLRs can be added in order to keep a road un-divided. Use of an un-divided road simplifies map maintenance. However, if more than 1 or 2 PLRs would be added, then we would likely be in a situation of appearing to add map clutter or the use of mapped driveways which is to be generally avoided.
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Re: [Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)

Postby hawkeygoal » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:24 pm

I've made some revisions to the proposed text which can be found at HERE.

The U-Turn section is a little lengthy. It could be collapsed a bit by making the bullet-point lists regular text. However, I feel bullet-points often better articulate information.

----

jdeyoung wrote:Use of enabled U-turns at designated crossovers on a waze un-divided street helps provide the actual guidance for what the user expects when their destination is on the opposite side of the street where a median separation exists.


I think this is included in the first example usage. I adjusted the verbiage slightly to use "median-divided" rather than "divided" to mean it has a physical median, not necessarily that there are two one-way segments. Going further I think starts delving into when to (or when not to) divide a segment/road which is probably best left to a different portion of the wiki. Any editing suggestions to make sure the U-Turn portion of your point is included?

I also edited the corner PLR example to move it more toward a generic implementation suggestion

----

I added some text borrowed from our friends to the southwest (I guess they showed me) for public streets. Specifically, U-Turns are a continuous movement (otherwise, it starts becoming a three-point turn) and a minimum diametral turning requirement. This gives better specific guidance than the "just don't do it" in the prior text.

While I'd be more than happy to see specific textual suggestions/changes for inclusion regarding large parking lots, I'd like to focus on the scope we have now without opening an entire "Parking Lots" section. The current bit is quite long enough.
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Re: [Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)  Topic is solved

Postby ehepner1977 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:11 pm

There being no further discussion in 2 weeks, I move that we publish this to the Wiki as it stands.
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Re: [Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)

Postby hawkeygoal » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:10 pm

Illinois editors and area managers are invited to participate in voting on this proposal by casting their ballot HERE ... the polls will remain open until 7PM CT on 22 FEB.
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Re: [Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)

Postby hawkeygoal » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:52 am

When voting closed this evening after a week of voting, the ballots cast stood as follows:

For the adoption of the page update: 9
Against the adoption of the page update: 0

The update is adopted and will be added to the wiki within the next week or two.

General demographics of participants
SM/AM editors: 8
Resident editors: 1
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Re: [Page Update] Illinois (Turn Restrictions)

Postby abright52 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:38 pm

I realize that I am a bit late to the party here, but it may be wise to include a note in the U-Turn section that U-Turns are prohibited in the City of Chicago unless posted as allowed.

CHICAGO ORDINANCE
9-16-040 Limitations on turning.
(a) The driver of any vehicle shall not turn such vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction at any point closer than 100 feet to any intersection unless official signs are erected to permit such turns.”
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