Highway Naming

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Re: Highway Naming

Postby AndyPoms » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:43 pm

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Highway Naming

Postby HavanaDay » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:15 pm

I have been working on getting the State Highways converted over to the NC-XX format. I have been putting this one of the longest if not the longest in the state but wanted to get some opinions.

We have two concurrent state highways through about 100 miles of the state

Highway 24 and Highway 27

I know around Charlotte it is known as NC-24 / 27 just wanted to get some opinions on what people think look best displayed:

Option #1 - NC-24 / 27 - Currently have that around my area and don't mind the way the voice guidance says it. Does have a slight noticeable pause between 24 / 27.

Option #2 - NC-24 27 - I believe this should get rid of the slight pause between the two numbers.

Option #3 - NC-24 - 27

Option #4 - NC-24/27 - Not sure how TTS would react to this

Option #5 - NC 24/27 - This breaks the naming convention set up for NC-XX

Looking for display and TTS functionality.

Thoughts?
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Re: Highway Naming

Postby HavanaDay » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:08 pm

I did read that again Andy. Just not sure it is a good case for this.

The wiki proposes I name it NC-24 / NC-27

I have always said it as 24 / 27, and people I now have always said or understood what I was saying that way. Now trying to keep with the spirt of the wiki standards I think it should be NC-24 / 27 (option 1). That is how I would say it with the addition of NC to just let other people now it is the state hwy.

What I was trying to figure out was where the slash should be (option 4) or if no slash (option 2).

I had originally settled on option #1, which are pretty close to the wiki guidelines, but I just thought some other local editors may have an opinion on the other options. Mainly option 2 but in my pursuit of thoughtfulness I came up with the other options as well.
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Re: Highway Naming

Postby HavanaDay » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:04 pm

I am unaware of where it was stated that we should not be converting them over. If you could link me to the relevant post I would greatly appreciate it.

I do know some have chosen not to switch over due to shields and the time aspect of doing so until the shields function becomes available. I was one of those people. I just got tired of hearing state highway on my daily commute home in NC and have started to convert them over. I have not heard any complaints thus far about it as well.

Also the following links show you in the wiki about converting them over for at least NC.

http://www.waze.com/wiki/?title=Road_Naming_(USA)#State_Highways

http://www.waze.com/wiki/?title=Road_naming_by_state

Is it highway 2427 or highways 24 and 27? Without the /, even a space may not be enough to distinguish on some phones or some voices.

Verbally it is the same. I would pronounce it N Cee 24 27. I agree with following the wiki as a general rule. That was the reason for my post here regarding this because it was going against the wiki.

If I really wanted to get technical the street signs in this area are labeled as NC 24 / 27 ( I will need to re verify that but this was one of the other reasons I posted this).
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Re: Highway Naming

Postby HavanaDay » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:49 pm

I remember that post. What I took from that is Andy was trying to get a list together about the TTS part of state highways and such. Now since day 1 I started editing, the one thing that bugged me is that the labeling of State Highway XX just felt wrong, looked wrong, took up to much space, and sounded wrong. It was done for the shields originally, and for a long time I resisted switching them, but ultimately it needs to be NC-XX where appropriate.

Now with regards to my original post, what prompted me to post it was the way the county labeled this on their GIS site and from giving driving directions for it in person. I do believe like you NC-24 / NC-27 is wiki correct as it stands now. I know that is what it should be. I was A) trying to justify my thought that NC 24 / 27 (Which based on two opinions here is incorrect) is better and B) Get some outside opinions and other peoples thoughts. I probably should have posted this to the main US forum but was hoping to get more opinions from people located inside NC.
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Re: Highway Naming

Postby HavanaDay » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:52 pm

Well in a perfect world there would be a text box on what to put on the shield in the map editor. I am not sure if anyone really knows how that integration is going to happen yet.

So to keep this thread going :lol: , if down the road we could get the road shielded to be the state shield (whether it is generic or looks like the state shield in real life) and it showed 24-27 would you still object to the TTS engine saying N Cee 24 27?
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Re: Highway Naming

Postby HavanaDay » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:35 pm

On the other hand, I-75 is concurrent with I-40 here through Knoxville. But most people just consider it I-40. The fact that I-75 runs concurrently is of secondary concern. People traveling through on 75 may think differently though ;)

I think the mileage though is labeled as I-40 through there though right. So it technically should be I-40. With that being said, fingers crossed that we can shield it as I-40 and I-75.

Now for the 1 and 9 thing. That is the crux of this post. And to tie together your post on another thread of what should it be. I think it depends how Waze wants to treat the app. Is it still a commuter GPS app or a more general GPS app. You are familiar with the same issue in western Carolina. Being from the Piedmont (Charlotte) I know most of the Smoky Mountain Expressway as US-74. We have it labeled though as what out there now (I didn't check), Smoky Mountain Expressway and US-19 / US-23. I tend to think I am smart enough to now I am on the right road but for someone just passing through there I could see some confusion. But I think that is all we have at the moment, because there isn't a real good way to solve it.

I am not a big fan of multi labels at this time. But in some cases it just seems we have no other choice. Taking 24-27 into account, if people around me would not refer to it that way, I would either right it as NC-24 or NC-27. But that isn't the case, People around here know it as 24/27. So what to do? There are plenty of State Roads in North Carolina that run concurrently together. The key to that is to figure out what most people know it as. I *gasp* make the best educated guess I can from the knowledge of the roads. Which is why I will very rarely change a road name out of my area.

If Waze could ever get intelligent enough to figure out if the person is commuting or passing through and we could set the road instruction appropriately. Aside from that, I think we will have this debate for a long time coming.
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Re: Highway Naming

Postby HavanaDay » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:49 pm

Well hopefully we will be able to generate shields to provide such general info to the unwitting public. Maybe they will even get a little education......
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Re: Highway Naming

Postby Riamus » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:09 pm

I think it needs to be as the wiki shows ... NC-24 / NC-27. There is discussion to get different audio for labeled routes than just what is said. That would make it so if everyone just says 24 / 27, it would show that even if it was written as NC-24 / NC-27. That being said, the state naming thread says that converting state highway names should not be done at this time until something is said from Waze on what direction they are going. Once shields work correctly, the / convention probably won't be valid anyhow and it will have to be changed to a primary and alternate name. And even if the shields work without needing an alternate name, if you just had 27, it wouldn't get a shield.

Basically, I am of the opinion that whatever standard is chosen for a labeled route needs to be used any place where that route number is located. In your example, that means NC-24 as well as NC-27.

Oh, and I definitely don't support not using /'s between different road names. I've had that discussion in the VA forum as well. The / provides a good pause making it possible to easily distinguish that the roads are different when you hear it spoken. Not every phone or every voice will say it the same way and without the slash, it can mix together. Is it highway 2427 or highways 24 and 27? Without the /, even a space may not be enough to distinguish on some phones or some voices. I ran across this with a labeled highway that had a direction in it followed by a city. Without the slash, the audio sounded like it was saying the highway "XX to North whatever city" instead of being "XX N to whatever city" simply because of the short pause that the space made instead of the longer pause of the / (and 2 spaces). I knew what it meant, but it certainly sounded wrong. Pronunciations can affect how things are said and having the extra pause really helps to prevent misunderstandings. It also makes it clear that 27 is a state highway and not a county highway. NC-24 / 27 could refer to NC-24 / CR-27. It should be clear that it doesn't even if you know there isn't a county highway by that number there, but it still provides yet another avenue of confusion without providing the NC in front.
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Re: Highway Naming

Postby Riamus » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:33 pm

I'm not sure if there is a specific topic for it, but this is from Andy. He repeated it later in the thread as well. I'm just going by what I hear or see, so he may be able to explain it better.

The street signs don't show a shield? That is rather unusual. Anyhow, like I was saying, the pause you hear or don't hear from a space varies from one voice to another and from one phone to another. My example from VA sounded just fine to the one who I was discussing it with, but sounded wrong on my phone. Unless we want to test every phone and voice combination to verify that they are all clear, I think it's far better to just stick to the / and then you're in good shape no matter what. And like I said, dropping the NC on the second highway means shields definitely aren't going to work automatically no matter how they handle them. I also think we need to stick to whatever standard is chosen and use that on the street names everywhere, even if you put 2 in one line. The / makes it very clear that they are two different roads and not a single road. It may be clear to you, but may not be clear to someone else if you just use a space... either in the audio or the visual display. So based on that, if it's going to be 2 roads on one line, I think it needs to be NC-27 / NC-24. That's of course just my own opinion.
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