Highway Naming

Moderators: xanderb, crazycaveman

Re: Highway Naming

Postby Riamus » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:24 pm

I am in NC, though not in that part of the state. I think we need to have NC no matter how it's done or shields aren't going to work whenever they manage to do them correctly for multiple shields. The number by itself just would show as text... Shield on the first and text on the second... not really ideal at all. Anyhow, that's just my opinion. You guys have been around longer. :)
[ img ]
Previously Area Manager: Michigan - Northern LP.
Waze running on LG Aristo 2.
Riamus
 
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:34 pm
Location: Worcester, MA
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 238 times

Re: Highway Naming

Postby Riamus » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:38 pm

Yeah, I put in some details on a way I think would work well for handling state (and county) shields in Waze. Not sure if it will help out or not or what the final result will look like. The end result should be that we see the state and county shields as they are in real life (perhaps without the state name in the shield if that's too hard to read at these resolutions).

I'm not sure still about the audio dropping NC on the second number. I still think it would be best to have it spoken as NC-24, NC-27. Also, I don't agree with placing 24-27 in a single shield at all. They should be two separate shields just like just about any map (all I've seen, but there may be some that are different) would have. Waze needs to get the ability to show multiple route shields for a road when they share the same stretch of road. We shouldn't be putting in something in the shield that doesn't match the real-life shield. And I don't think the shield on the roadside says 24-27. I'm not talking about the green street signs as those are limited in what they can show, but the actual shield. I'm sure you'll see two shields instead of one.

I'm actually surprised anyone says both in the first place. I tend to hear people just say one of the highways (usually the one that is most important) instead of the others. Business 40 is called just that here even if other routes are part of it. Of course, Google's navigation directions don't even mention Business 40 and instead call it one of the route names instead. I definitely think that's incorrect, but then again Google also calls Statesville "Statsville". :)
[ img ]
Previously Area Manager: Michigan - Northern LP.
Waze running on LG Aristo 2.
Riamus
 
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:34 pm
Location: Worcester, MA
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 238 times

Re: Highway Naming

Postby Riamus » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:26 pm

I was thinking about this more. Whatever is decided for state highways should match any other routes. For example, would you write I-40 / 85? Or I-40 / I-85? I'd choose the latter. Granted, if I were to say these aloud, I would drop "I" from both and probably would say only 40 because 40 is the main highway and 85 just shares the road for a time. If I wanted to say both, I'd probably say it as 40 & 85. It's uncommon for me to say the prefix, though with some roads I do... not really sure why I will on some, but anyhow... :) Most people I hear saying any highway names around here just say the number and only rarely use the prefix. That doesn't really mean the map itself shouldn't be labeled correctly, though.

Here's my thought on this and is basically what I've mentioned earlier. I'll just recap in case I missed something. The *data* entered should always be specific and should not be edited to "sound" right. If we want it to sound right or look right in the client (or live map), then the *system* should convert the real data into what is considered "correct" for the area. In other words, you'd enter the specific format of NC-27 / NC-24 and the system would display it with shields as two separate shields similar to other map software and would read it aloud in the format considered to be normal for the area regardless of how the data is stored. Until the shields appear, it could be set to display it in another format as well, regardless of the data. In either case, the data should be specifically entered and then the system converts it as needed.

The biggest issue we need to keep in mind is that in the editor, the text is data. To act on data in a specific way without causing a lot of needless problems, the data needs to be entered in an expected format. If you have a dozen different formats and want it to handle the data the same way for all of those formats, then you have to provide support for every format and that provides opportunity for errors. When we're talking about many different possible formats for each state (with overlap, of course) as well as formats for the different countries, it is far easier for the data to be entered in one standard format and then use a conversion table to make it display and say it in a way that is considered acceptable than to have dozens of formats that all need to be made to work correctly.

I mentioned it in that State Highway thread, but I'll mention it here as well. If we could choose a single standard format for the road names to be used for *entry*, such as SR-XX and CR-XX (and US-XX and I-XX, which are already standard), then it is very easy to use a conversion table that converts it into what each state wants for display and audio. You enter SR-XX into the box for a state highway in North Carolina and the conversion table displays it in the client as NC-XX before we get shields or as XX inside a shield after we get shields. The same for CR-XX for county roads. A conversion table is very easy to work with and to maintain. If a state decides to change how something is worded, such as changing from "State Highway XX" to "Route XX", it's a single change in the conversion table that updates it for every single state highway in that state. No need to update every road segment. But if you have a variety of different naming schemes, then even though it's still possible, it's far more difficult to maintain.
[ img ]
Previously Area Manager: Michigan - Northern LP.
Waze running on LG Aristo 2.
Riamus
 
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:34 pm
Location: Worcester, MA
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 238 times

Re: Highway Naming

Postby Riamus » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:13 pm

It's an interesting point, but I think specific cases like those that are more just habit than standard should just be ignored if we can't do it within the confines of a standard system. If the entire state doesn't do the same thing on all combined roads, I'd leave them as two separate shields. Especially if the DOT is switching to that. Just my preference, but at some point you have to stop trying to fit everyone's personal/local preferences in and just accept a standard practice. There are going to be people who say two roads like "1 and 9" even in other states (I might do that myself if I felt like listing both roads, which would be rare for me), but there are others who might say only one number or may call it Route 1 or Highway 1 or whatever else. We can't make it display the way every person wants as it is. The best we can do is state by state (or country). And when you're talking about a US highway, it should definitely be labeled using a standard format. It's one thing when you want to try and get state level roads or county level roads to look or read like they expect locally, but when you are talking about a US highway or an Interstate, those absolutely need to be done in a standard format regardless of local use. Just my opinion, of course.
[ img ]
Previously Area Manager: Michigan - Northern LP.
Waze running on LG Aristo 2.
Riamus
 
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 7:34 pm
Location: Worcester, MA
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 238 times

Re: Highway Naming

Postby WeeeZer14 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:14 pm

Tangent, but I have to keep up my record of bring up my favorite concurrent route at least once every 6 to 12 months ;)

In northern NJ US-1 and US-9 are concurrent and everyone calls the road "1 and 9" and there are even official US route shields containing the text "1-9" (and even a few rare "1&9"). Newly installed signage is moving away from the combined signs and NJDOT is now using separate shields though.

But to people in the area "route 1", "route 9", and "1 and 9" are almost treated as three totally separate roads that are barely related to each other. So using just one number as the primary loses some important context.

On the other hand, I-75 is concurrent with I-40 here through Knoxville. But most people just consider it I-40. The fact that I-75 runs concurrently is of secondary concern. People traveling through on 75 may think differently though ;)
iPhone 5s (AT&T) • iOS 7.0.3 • Waze 3.7.6.0
[ img ]
✰ Mega Driver ✰ Mega Mapper ✰ 1M Points ✰
Country Manager: USA • Regional Coordinator: USA South Atlantic (KY, TN, NC, SC)
Navigation/Routing ExpertForum Moderator
WeeeZer14
 
Posts: 3761
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:27 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 316 times

Re: Highway Naming

Postby WeeeZer14 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:43 am

HavanaDay wrote:I think the mileage though is labeled as I-40 through there though right. So it technically should be I-40. With that being said, fingers crossed that we can shield it as I-40 and I-75.

Correct, it is I-40 based on mile markers and is named as such currently with the I-75 names as an alternate name.

But I can understand someone traveling through on I-75 would consider it all 75 in their minds since they get on 75 and stay on 75. Many people in the general public don't understand concurrencies or at least don't pay attention to them. If there are 2, 3, 4 concurrent routes, all the user's brain "sees" is the one they care about.
iPhone 5s (AT&T) • iOS 7.0.3 • Waze 3.7.6.0
[ img ]
✰ Mega Driver ✰ Mega Mapper ✰ 1M Points ✰
Country Manager: USA • Regional Coordinator: USA South Atlantic (KY, TN, NC, SC)
Navigation/Routing ExpertForum Moderator
WeeeZer14
 
Posts: 3761
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:27 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 316 times

Previous

Return to North Carolina

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users