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Greenfield (2) MN

Post by psubrian
Hello,

Anyone know why Greenfield MN is listed in the cities field for streets as Greenfield (2)? To the best of my knowledge, there are not two Greenfields in MN. (This is just east of Rockford.)

Thanks,
Brian
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Post by the1who
In part, was my fault. You have some others pending that I'll need to tackle today.

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Post by the1who
Originally when the tiger map import occurred, if there were two cities, be it a township or not, they would add the (2). If this is indeed a mistake, we can go through the cities form which is supposed to address these naming issues from the database, just make sure that you put the correct name of course though. You can change city name, delete name, merge cities, duplicate city, city smudge, and change state here:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1bZ_fVD ... Q/viewform

Hope that helps, since your are more up to date with that area, I hope this will work for you.
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Post by psubrian
So DallasGrant - glad to see you're an Area Manager for MN - I've been asking for a list of the AMs. Are you going to submit for Greenfield then?

Thanks,
Brian
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Post by GiannaRama
Yeah, I know what you mean. Going by postal city will seriously expand visual the boundaries of the cities, since a post office might deliver far away from the city limits but it all originates in the city center.

I guess that gives even more reason to use the CDP.
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Post by GiannaRama
I agree that "Greater _____ Area" should go, regardless of whether we decide to keep townships or not.

Ditto on "Twp" names... I would think we'd either have "_______ Township" (in cases when the map made a "_____(2)" city) or just plain "________".

You are right about Stillwater, there's a strong local awareness there.

AlanOfTheBerg states back in April that he uses city names that are part of a POIs actual mailing address (in Oregon?). He feels this helps with routing and navigation. This approach is supported by CBenson who writes that using township names in the "city" field can cause problems when searching.

The urbanized east coast states such as New Jersey, Maryland and Pennsylvania seem to set statewide conventions to use CDPs for city naming.

Other (semi-rural) states like Texas and Maine like to use proper city names.

As far as Region 3 (Plains) guidance goes, we don't have much to go on... SD/ND don't have state pages, Kansas, Iowa, Missouri & Nebraska have pages but don't address it at all.

Everyone agrees that the issue of what to put in the "city" field is especially problematic and the best solution would be an uncoupling of the street and city layers, but this can only come from Waze itself. In the meantime we are stuck with a kludge solution.

Interestingly, I just did a quick search on the greenhouse I go to -- it's set way out in the country, at least 10 miles outside of what the Census considers to the be boundaries of Pine Island. In Google Maps the greenhouse has a Pine Island mailing address, and the road to that the greenhouse is currently set to "No city". I searched for it in Waze and it popped up as "108th Street, Pine Island, MN" and routed just fine. Which leaves me scratching my head.

I guess if we are to stick to the three principles of usability, simplicity & retention (in that order) then it says to me that we should stick to the Census Designated Places (more narrow a definition?) OR zipcode-based city names and their boundaries (more broad a definition?), and remove the unincorporated townships as they don't appear on mailing addresses. Depending on which convention is adopted, that greenhouse could either have no city name OR a Pine Island city name, which could potentially have a visual impact on the map.

Removing the townships also addresses the principle of simplicity as it reduces map clutter.

I think whatever convention is adopted, if there is a strong local identification with the surrounding township then that should be retained and it should supercede the first two. However, that sort of thing can only be determined by talking to locals in the area (or seeing evidence of signage*) and in the absence of that cultural confirmation, the previous convention should stand.

Whew! Thoughts?

(*edited to add)
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