Page update - Parking Lot Area

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Re: Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby unlimited1808 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:08 am

I think more on the planned features needs to be known for this change to be addressed. Quite honestly, the PLAs look terrible when drawn to avoid buildings. I suspect the planned features are detection of parking inside a polygon. Not sure many buildings need to be excluded for that to work.

Ultimately, I'd like to know more of the plans before instituting such a change.
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Re: Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby sikemever » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:58 am

Drawing tbe PLA to match the actual lot can have unintended negative consequences where the buildings wrap or are at odd angles and there are multiple businesses in a strip. I recently had this happen going to my Dentist. I was told that the best parking was at a Planet Fitness a ways away. This was despite there was a PLA right in front of his office. The reason is the entry point location. I would have been better off to draw 3 PLA with the point closest to each building then to match the large lot. This needa to be addressed in some manner.
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Re: Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby netguygreen » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:18 pm

These suggestions would be an improvement. Particularly, having the new text at the end of the first paragraph.
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Re: Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby mariettagecko » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:53 am

Sorry it took me so long to see this. I just saw it now for some reason.

Here's the current text:
Drawing link to this section
The Parking Lot Area (PLA) Place should never be attached/snapped to roads. Places snapped to roads are difficult to edit.

For planned parking features to be announced later, it's important that the shape of the polygon be drawn as close as possible to the actual shape of the parking lot, including the entry/exit location. Keeping in mind that for multi-level garages, only the footprint of the structure should be outlined.

If a lot spans both sides of a street (not counting PLRs obviously), it must be mapped so the polygon does not overlap the street. This may require drawing the lot as separate places.
If the lot is elevated above the street however, and the lot actually covers the street, then the PLA may overlap the street as well.

For underground garages it is not important to draw the polygon to match the internal perimeter since there is no GPS signal underground. It is important that the polygon includes any above ground areas, and the underground areas near any entrances or exits in a single polygon. If a lot has more than one entrance/exit the polygon must be made to connect all the entrances and exits. You may use a PLR to show multiple entrances as well, allowing the routing to choose the best route to access the lot, just as an above ground lot is drawn. It is not important however to draw the polygon to the entire footprint of the garage. The accuracy of the entry point (Setting the stop point) is very important.


I think we should probably edit it to add in something into the second paragraph, similar to the following.

Drawing link to this section
The Parking Lot Area (PLA) Place should never be attached/snapped to roads. Places snapped to roads are difficult to edit.

For planned parking features to be announced later, it's important that the shape of the polygon be drawn as close as possible to the actual shape of the parking lot, including the entry/exit location. Keeping in mind that for multi-level garages, only the footprint of the structure should be outlined. Note that, unless the parking area goes over or under the building it's associated with, the building should not be included in the parking lot area.

If a lot spans both sides of a street (not counting PLRs obviously), it must be mapped so the polygon does not overlap the street. This may require drawing the lot as separate places.
If the lot is elevated above the street however, and the lot actually covers the street, then the PLA may overlap the street as well.

For underground garages it is not important to draw the polygon to match the internal perimeter since there is no GPS signal underground. It is important that the polygon includes any above ground areas, and the underground areas near any entrances or exits in a single polygon. If a lot has more than one entrance/exit the polygon must be made to connect all the entrances and exits. You may use a PLR to show multiple entrances as well, allowing the routing to choose the best route to access the lot, just as an above ground lot is drawn. It is not important however to draw the polygon to the entire footprint of the garage. The accuracy of the entry point (Setting the stop point) is very important.
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Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby mariettagecko » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:11 pm

After having just had a discussion in Discord with Karlcr9911 (RC), he recommended that I post a page update request in here. I was going through the wazeopedia because of a problem I was dealing with regarding Parking Lot areas. While we were working on that, he indicated to me that the building around which the PLA lies should not be included in the PLA polygon. When I asked why, he said that this was because of this section of the PLA page:

For planned parking features to be announced later, it's important that the shape of the polygon be drawn as close as possible to the actual shape of the parking lot, including the entry/exit location.
https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/USA/Pl ... ot#Drawing

When I read that, I didn't read it that way. Can I recommend that if it is intended that a place where there's a street-level parking lot around a structure has the PLA not include the structure itself, we please make that more clear in the WoP?

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Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:34 pm

... Note that, unless the parking area goes over or under the building(s) it's associated with, the building should not be included in the parking lot area.


There appears to be a dearth of information available to production editors about the inner realities of this feature and the actual back-end importance of the extra work required to avoid buildings when drawing the boundaries of a lot.

For example, I've noticed that Waze treats the "shopping center" area place as if it were a parking lot. At least, last I checked. We've never drawn shopping centers to avoid the buildings in them. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't, I'm just saying the "find parking" behavior as implemented at the present time may be too inconsistent for us to reverse engineer accurately.

All that being said, I personally have no objection to the additional sentence as long as it is qualified somehow. For example, the following would work for me. I especially like the word "convention" since it doesn't make a claim that we are aware of a strong reason to do things this way, it's just how we currently do it.

Note that, unless the parking area goes over or under the building(s) it's associated with, the current convention is not to include the building in the parking lot area.
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Re: Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby dBsooner » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:11 am

sikemever wrote:Drawing tbe PLA to match the actual lot can have unintended negative consequences where the buildings wrap or are at odd angles and there are multiple businesses in a strip. I recently had this happen going to my Dentist. I was told that the best parking was at a Planet Fitness a ways away. This was despite there was a PLA right in front of his office. The reason is the entry point location. I would have been better off to draw 3 PLA with the point closest to each building then to match the large lot. This needa to be addressed in some manner.


Actually, what you are referring to has nothing to do with entry point. It has everything to do with the parking lot function of Waze is incomplete and frankly, broken. It’s something we have been asking staff about for a while with the answer of “lower priority”. This is also why I (with instruction from my regions leaders (and most (?) region leadership)) do not concentrate on PLA’s. Suggested parking is a joke at the moment. Not to mention how they appear in the client, or with all the P’s in one spot if they are all marked public...

What I am proposing is the simple already followed practice of not drawing over a building. That’s it. That’s all I’m asking to add.


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Re: Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby dBsooner » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:01 am

unlimited1808 wrote:I think more on the planned features needs to be known for this change to be addressed. Quite honestly, the PLAs look terrible when drawn to avoid buildings. I suspect the planned features are detection of parking inside a polygon. Not sure many buildings need to be excluded for that to work.

Ultimately, I'd like to know more of the plans before instituting such a change.


I don’t disagree with this notion at all. However, the WoP is to provide current guidance to the masses. As it stands at this moment, it is common practice and taught guidance to not draw PLA’s over buildings. Until that changes, why keep it from the WoP? If we waited for the outcome of all the changes that will or might come “soon”, we’d never have to update the documentation. LOL.


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Re: Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby dBsooner » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:23 pm

I wanted to revive this thread. This is a minor update to the current PLA page.

The second paragraph in the Drawing section currently reads:

... For planned parking features to be announced later, it's important that the shape of the polygon be drawn as close as possible to the actual shape of the parking lot, including the entry/exit location. Keeping in mind that for multi-level garages, only the footprint of the structure should be outlined. ...


The OP requested the following be appended to this paragraph:

... Note that, unless the parking area goes over or under the building(s) it's associated with, the building should not be included in the parking lot area.


I'd further like to append the same line to the first paragraph under the Scope section.
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Re: Page update - Parking Lot Area

Postby dBsooner » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:01 am

mariettagecko wrote:Sorry it took me so long to see this. I just saw it now for some reason.

Here's the current text:
Drawing link to this section
The Parking Lot Area (PLA) Place should never be attached/snapped to roads. Places snapped to roads are difficult to edit.

For planned parking features to be announced later, it's important that the shape of the polygon be drawn as close as possible to the actual shape of the parking lot, including the entry/exit location. Keeping in mind that for multi-level garages, only the footprint of the structure should be outlined.

If a lot spans both sides of a street (not counting PLRs obviously), it must be mapped so the polygon does not overlap the street. This may require drawing the lot as separate places.
If the lot is elevated above the street however, and the lot actually covers the street, then the PLA may overlap the street as well.

For underground garages it is not important to draw the polygon to match the internal perimeter since there is no GPS signal underground. It is important that the polygon includes any above ground areas, and the underground areas near any entrances or exits in a single polygon. If a lot has more than one entrance/exit the polygon must be made to connect all the entrances and exits. You may use a PLR to show multiple entrances as well, allowing the routing to choose the best route to access the lot, just as an above ground lot is drawn. It is not important however to draw the polygon to the entire footprint of the garage. The accuracy of the entry point (Setting the stop point) is very important.


I think we should probably edit it to add in something into the second paragraph, similar to the following.

Drawing link to this section
The Parking Lot Area (PLA) Place should never be attached/snapped to roads. Places snapped to roads are difficult to edit.

For planned parking features to be announced later, it's important that the shape of the polygon be drawn as close as possible to the actual shape of the parking lot, including the entry/exit location. Keeping in mind that for multi-level garages, only the footprint of the structure should be outlined. Note that, unless the parking area goes over or under the building it's associated with, the building should not be included in the parking lot area.

If a lot spans both sides of a street (not counting PLRs obviously), it must be mapped so the polygon does not overlap the street. This may require drawing the lot as separate places.
If the lot is elevated above the street however, and the lot actually covers the street, then the PLA may overlap the street as well.

For underground garages it is not important to draw the polygon to match the internal perimeter since there is no GPS signal underground. It is important that the polygon includes any above ground areas, and the underground areas near any entrances or exits in a single polygon. If a lot has more than one entrance/exit the polygon must be made to connect all the entrances and exits. You may use a PLR to show multiple entrances as well, allowing the routing to choose the best route to access the lot, just as an above ground lot is drawn. It is not important however to draw the polygon to the entire footprint of the garage. The accuracy of the entry point (Setting the stop point) is very important.


I see no issue with that being added. Let’s see if anyone wants to wordsmith. ;)


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