Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby gabmtl » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:15 am

@Jpere ... I agree with you, but as you can see, in 3 posts we went off subject.

There are lots of issues that need to be fixed and that need rules.

To get back to the subject. "Landmarks".
I did a few edits and I tested some of them, so here are my observations:
1- Small stores have no visibility on the client (iphone4s) ... minimum size required.
2- The 3D view is much better to see Landmarks in the client.
3- The important point would be for the driver to know there is a Wallmart close by. This would mean that the size of the landmark needs to be as big as possible. This may mean including small parking lots in the landmark.
4- For bigger shopping malls, parking lot roads make sense for main entrance/exits, but the parking lot roads close to the streets need to be at specific distance in the map otherwise user gets "snapped" to the street. Maybe for much bigger one "Parking lot landmark" would make sense as well, with or without parking lot roads. (testing some of that at the moment)
5- Naming of the landmark needs to be small if there are other landmarks near by. I think that at some point we need to keep the landmarks generic ("Library of Old-guy-dead-for-may-year-yet-important" should be only "Library", unless the actual library name is small.)
6- We are missing POI in the client. Once that could be activated the landmarks would be less important. We need to have at least the basic ones (Gas, shopping, police, fire, hospital, pharmacy, auto_repair, and a few others.)
7- It would be of some importance to have many small store merged in the same landmark but with NoName so that the user knows there is something of importance there, without messing up the map.
8- The client is not good enough at the moment to properly display satellite accurate landmarks, so a Blob would do the job just as well.
9- I see many alerts from Waze regarding undefined gas stations. So for these landmarks we need to understand if the Gas Landmark suppresses trafic or if we need to edit Parking lot roads.
10- Editing needs to be fast and easy. At the moment we wave way too many Landmarks type from the editor. The Editor should focus on the minimal work required. Once all of that is defined, then they can add in the bonus ones :)

I did not test everything yet, and I am sure a ton of people have more experience than me so I am willing to adapt as long as it makes sense.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby gabmtl » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:55 pm

I played around with a few landmarks and now that I was able to test an update on my iphone4s I think we are missing a critical piece in the editor.

We are missing an importance metric for landmarks.

All landmarks should be created if they can be properly maintained. The major or critical landmarks should have a greater importance. At the moment, it seems that the client landmark display is based on size and but it is not always the case, some weird algorithm.

So we need to ask for a change in the editor
e1:- add importance metric for every landmark (so we can put small stuff as non important)
e2:- attach point for label (especially useful for large landmarks)
e4:- many small unimportant landmarks should be visually merged in a no-name landmark. (at the moment they disappear)

Some of the editor changes also apply to the client and vice versa.
We also need to ask for a change in the client for the way landmarks are displayed.
c1:- smaller font on less critical landmarks. Or an option to include specific level landmarks.
c2:- shorter text on long names (so the landmark name does not impact the road names or other landmarks)
c3:- attach point for landmarks (Would be nice to have a small list of available landmarks and their location on map with an arrow or line. This can be based on selected landmark types chosen.)
c4:- wrap around for hyphen words (MrBigshotSuchandSuch-Oldschool-Landmark should be on 2or3 lines so it will be easier to read)
c5:- Critical landmarks to have type visible even if not zoomed in. Hospital, Police. Maybe include Icons for critical landmarks.

We need the Police and Firestation and hospital to be more important than City-Hall, gas stations to have priority over convenience stores and some Supermarkets to have priority over large parks.We need a priority list of all things displayed.

What do you think about this ? :?:
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby HandOfMadness » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:57 am

I have a question. How should national forest land be covered? Currently, its one GIGANTIC landmark in the client. The problem I'm running into, is there are numerous cities within this gigantic landmark. And its impossible for me to select any existing landmarks, as any time I try to click on one, the National Forest landmark is selected instead. Do we really need landmarks that cover hundreds of square miles of mountain land, including all forest, roads, etc?
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby HandOfMadness » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:33 am

mtlgab wrote:@Jpere ... I agree with you, but as you can see, in 3 posts we went off subject.

There are lots of issues that need to be fixed and that need rules.

To get back to the subject. "Landmarks".
I did a few edits and I tested some of them, so here are my observations:
1- Small stores have no visibility on the client (iphone4s) ... minimum size required..


From the UK landmark page:
"Landmarks smaller than about 1600m² (40m x 40m) won't appear on the client, so there's no point adding them to the map. (A standard build McDonald's with Drive-thru is approximately 1000m²) "
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby HandOfMadness » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:44 pm

I know adding gas station landmarks won't affect the gas station/price search, but I don't think it would conflict or cause any problems, with the added benefit of suppressing traffic errors.

Plus the landmarks are small enough they won't show up on the client.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby HandOfMadness » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:13 am

One of the local users has used the Road to River script to turn all the local train routes into landmarks on the map. I figured this script/use of landmarks should be discussed in this thread and included on the Wiki page whenever it actually gets made.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby HandOfMadness » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:03 pm

Timbones wrote:[Edit: isn't there a separate thread about landmarks in the US forum?]

via mobile


Yes, there are two US specific Landmark threads in the US Local forum.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jasonh300 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:03 pm

CrackedLCD wrote:Personally I would like to see the parking lots mapped only over parking areas, and a separate landmark could be drawn for shopping malls or other nearby large buildings. I'm not sure how it'd look on the map, though.


Check out Edgewater Mall in Biloxi, MS. I drew in the mall separately from the parking lot. Waste of time. There's no obvious difference on the client.

I could've just drawn one large landmark around the perimeter, set it as Parking Lot, and named it Edgewater Mall and it would have have the same effect.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=4&lat ... TTTFTTTTFT
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Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jasonh300 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:04 am

scruffy151 wrote:
CrackedLCD wrote:In that case, why should we even label malls and other big landmarks anything other than parking lot, if they all look the same?


Now that parking lot roads are fixed I don't use parking lot landmarks anymore. You can add in extra roads in cases where a landmark may have been needed before.


You certainly don't need a landmark if you draw the roads. Except in the case of a mall, which is typically marked with a landmark anyway, and is so large and has so few roads compared to paved area, that both are necessary. Might as well make the entire mall and parking lot one big PLot landmark.

That's what I've done for every mall besides Edgewater.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jasonh300 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:09 pm

mtlgab wrote:If the landmark goes beyond the building limits that would mean it will cover some parking roads but that is against the rules (see above).


Parking lot roads are part of the landmark, so that wouldn't apply. I actually put that section into the Wiki after discovering HUNDREDS of sloppy parking lot landmarks that covered the streets surrounding the landmark, making those surrounding streets ignore traffic jams.
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