Prefix confusion

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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:49 am

Also, I believe the page was originally called "Suffix Abbreviations" and this user changed it to "Abbreviations and Acronyms". I am not sure that was the original intent of the page. I believe we still need a page dedicated to "Suffix Abbreviations" with a note that these abbreviations should not be used in prefixes.

There are no acronyms on this page. All acronyms are in the Glossary page, which is why I originally added the link to it thinking people might be confused by not finding any acronyms. Now I see this user cased that confusion during their 1 week edit frenzy.

So I propose we move the page back to its original name, but will await other comments.
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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:57 pm

No worms seen here. ;)

I could support a title "Road Naming Abbreviations" and cover all aspects of abbreviations.


At one time I recall seeing the general recommendation to only abbreviate:

1. The road type name like Lane (Ln), Street (St), Road (Rd), etc. only when it appears at the end of the road name (not including ordinal directions (N, S, E, W)).

2. Ordinal directions should be abbreviated when at the end of a road name indicating the direction of travel (I-280 S), but not when used as part of the name in the prefix or body of the road name (South Oak St).


Other names that should not be abbreviated:

A. Foreign (to the country in which it is used) language names (Calle, Real, etc for the US, but should be abbreviated in Spanish language countries if they meet the above requirements).

B. Words not at the end of the road name (Red Canyon Rd, not Red Cyn Rd; North Street Ln, not N St Ln).


Other Notes:

N1. Do not add a period (full stop) to the end of an abbreviation except in specific situations required for TTS {I am not sure about this one, but I believe it exists; can't look it up at the moment.}
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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:19 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
DwarfLord wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote:Ordinal directions should be abbreviated when at the end of a road name indicating the direction of travel (I-280 S), but not when used as part of the name in the prefix or body of the road name (South Oak St).

This one still throws me...the maps are full of "S Oak St" and the like, they are everywhere I look. I am gathering this is now considered OK, but even if it isn't, the horse appears to have left the barn in a big way.

I don't agree with "no abbreviated prefixes." They work just fine and the map, literally, in most every city, has either N, S, E, W or NW, NE, SE, SW as prefixes.

To be clear, my list was what I thought I had either seen or heard. If there are no problems using abbreviations in prefixes, then I fully support them. Sounds like that point from my list should be removed. No problem.
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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:54 pm

sketch wrote:I really doubt there'd be a North N Street anywhere, but I guess on our standards it'd be "N 'N' St"...

I see them all the time.
ShortStreetNames.jpg
ShortStreetNames.jpg (120.89 KiB) Viewed 368 times

I never use TTS, so I have never heard how they sound without the single quote. I will have to test them this weekend. Funny thing is I have never seen a UR complaining.
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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:16 am

As predicted TTS failed on the N N St. today with North North Street. I will need to fix the coordinal looking street names this weekend.
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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:45 am

My thumbs up is thanks for stepping up.

I moved the 'Other abbreviations' section to the talk page since it was added without any discussion in the forums and at least one editor noted there are concerns with the content.

I agree the abbreviations table itself can be moved to a separate page for simpler management. You can use [[Abbreviations and acronyms/AbbreviationsTable]] and then in the page you can place the front matter of that section followed by {{:Abbreviations and acronyms/AbbreviationsTable}} to get it transcluded into the page.

You can use the Wikitable formatting to sort the table by any of the three columns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Table#Sorting

A prior editor renamed this page without any discussion from Abbreviations to the current title (which I had to recently fix). I think the original title may be better. The Acronyms below with the Glossary, and we can continue to point to it from here.
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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:18 pm

Catching back up on this one. I think the content proposals sound good.

As for layout, SirKitKat and I are about to do some tests on automating the country specific content. If it works correctly, pages with country specific content would check your country setting and automatically show the correct link, redirect the user, or directly transclude the appropriate content.

As for whether to put any content into templates (or page transclusions as the new direction we are headed), that might change slightly as we work on the country specific automation. In the mean time I recommend just keeping the content on the one page for now, rather than possibly change it twice.
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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby qwaletee » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:47 am

I made a comment about the wiki abbreviations page needing serious copyediting in another thread somewhere, and someone promptly did an "oh, thank you for volunteering" sort of thing.

I gave it a shot, but grew very frustrated. There's a kernel of good info there, a ton of misino, and it really serves two very different purposes (documenting policy, and documenting the list of known abbreviations).

So, I have a proposal. Two parts, cuz why stay focused on one thing at a time? Right?

1) Split he page. Let there be one guidance page (policy) and another page with all the abbreviations (list). Maybe we'll even be nice and allow sorting by abbreviation and by spelling, or break it down by first initial, so it is easier to navigate. The two can cross-link. This will make the two sets of information more navigable and clear.

2) We need to get together a bunch of editors and hash out what we want the policy page to say at the global level. If there are global standards, or only a handful of regional standards with significant overlap, great. If not, it is a really short page with links to region-specific pages, and perhaps some brief guidance for regions that have no abbreviations policy of heir own.

#1 is easy. #2... well, that's why I was frustrated, Because we really don't have consensus on what;s proper, so I really had no logical basis for making my edits.

All in favor, thums up. All not in favor, please go back to map editing and stop volunteering me. :lol:
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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby qwaletee » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:20 am

Thanks, Kent, for putting in the effort. ANd double-thanks for the thumbs up. I will probably have a crazy rest of February, so I may not be able to get to this for a few weeks. Hopefully, I'll remember in March, assuming this is still open. I still think we need some brainstorming around what goes into the guidance text.
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Re: Prefix confusion

Postby qwaletee » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:42 am

I agree with your sentiments. The few areas I would do it dofferently (but it's just one man's opinion):

The full table should not be transcluded, just link it in. Keeps the articles focused and short for readers, not just editors.

If there is a compelling reason, we can maintain the "other" list separately, otherwise, just combine them.

Directionals need special attention in both the narrative and the table, because of the false positive issue. Perhaps there should be a general section for unintended abbreviations? I never thought about that beyond the directionals, until I saw the discussion of Doctor and Saint.
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