[New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby bummerdude69 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:23 pm

I'd suggest a title change to 'Help for New Editors' or similar. Thinking as a newbie, with the 'softer' title, I'd be more inclined check it out.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby CBenson » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:01 pm

DwarfLord wrote:While I can't speak for others, if the editing community told me that I could not edit effectively, even as a beginner, without extending Waze with third-party scripts, I would wonder if Waze must not be that good. What am I supposed to think, if it appears the editing community regards the base WME as inadequate? I would question the commitment of Waze to the editing community, and that would lead me to question how much commitment I wanted to put into Waze.


I agree, and I continue to wonder this as a Global Champ. The flip side of the same coin, is wondering whether waze really wants us doing the things that the scripts permit us to do. If they wanted us to do theses things the scripts allow, why wouldn't they provide the tools themselves (or at least provide some official endorsement of scripts that they feel advance the objects of waze).

It seems to me that there are at least two factors at work. First, it seems to me that waze wants to be able to essentially say that the map is created by a vast number of users driving around and finding problems and getting them fixed. There of course is a something of a myth here in that much map editing is done without much connection to any driving. But to the extent that waze sees their userbase editing maps based on user's driving experiences then the scripts are just an outgrowth of that user experience with users making the waze map better. If waze doesn't look at the scripts, then they can continue to espouse the master myth of how the maps get created.

Second, there is clearly a resource allocation issue here. Waze either doesn't want to or can't allocate resources to incorporate many of the script functions into WME. There are other pressing development goals. To the extent that the map editing is getting accomplished, they don't need to work on the features that we can already access through community developed tools.

There is some downside to the appearance that waze always appears to be looking the other way as to the actual methods used to adjust the map. But there is upside too, that is why we use the third-party scripts.

On balance I prefer that beginners should be introduced to these realities of the waze editing experience early.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby CBenson » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:53 pm

Sure, but the question is how much reading should they have to do? Isn't the question at issue whether the page being designed to point to when responding to incorrect edits should include information regarding the scripts?
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby ct13 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:25 pm

I am opposed to telling novice editors to use the validator script. I believe that an new editors should be taught to pick out incorrect edits on their own based on their knowledge of their streets rather than a script telling them that something may be wrong. I think of it like learning to multiply or divide before using a calculator. People use a calculator to save time, but they need to know the context and mechanics behind how the calculator is coming up with that answer, so they can understand it.

While the validator report gives a good idea of what is wrong with the segment and goes more in-depth with a link to a wiki page or the forum, I suspect that many people never run the report to see these links. I guess I would be somewhat assuaged if validator didn't highlight in WME for L1s and instead required them to run a report to find errors. However, as a whole I am opposed to novice editors being told to download scripts. I believe we have a solid mentoring group and I think that we should start to use it more(maybe a group class?) rather than offloading our teaching to these scripts.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby dude463 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:20 pm

Dragging up an old topic can I suggest that you emphasize that you shouldn't delete segments? I'd think going around deleting segments would be worse than being unreachable. Maybe the second most. But deleting segments isn't even touched on, yet if you monitor chat and a newb pops up with a request to delete something it's really discouraged. Like a lot.
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[New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:28 pm

Incorrect edits affect all of us, but there doesn't seem to be a wiki dedicated to the most common mistakes and the "official" approach to responding to them. I've often wished for one. When I encounter these issues I would like simply to PM a link to the editor in question and then get to work.

A good wiki would list the most common mistakes, explain why a response was necessary, and describe what that response should be. It would support the novice editor with helpful information, encourage better editing, and hopefully leave him or her feeling positive. At the same time it would alleviate the advancing editor from having to explain the same things again and again.

So, here is my attempt at this wiki. It is missing correct imagery and links to appropriate wikis but all the text and basic formatting is there.

(Draft link redacted now that the official page is live.)

I'd welcome any big comments or concerns! Especially if this is thought to duplicate some existing reference I want to catch that before I put any more work into it. Also welcome are thoughts on the wiki title and where it should fit in the wiki tree.

Small things might best be postponed. If this wiki is deemed appropriate, let's get it into an official location and then open it up for anyone to improve :)

I hope it proves useful!

[Edit: if you like the idea of this wiki and its general approach, please also feel welcome to say so, or just to use the "thank" button, so I have some idea if it's worth further effort :D ]
Last edited by DwarfLord on Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:39 pm

Fredo-p wrote:Looks like you need some screenshots of the examples listed. Are you working on taking those screenshots or adding them from other wiki pages?

Not yet. It was a good stopping place to put this wiki up for consideration. If response is enthusiastic I will gladly go a-hunting for good screenshots. Probably won't take long :lol:

Fredo-p wrote:Some wiki pages already exits for the mistakes mentioned. Will you be adding links to the respective pages?

Absolutely. The page is intended as a gateway for those who have probably been skipping the documentation and as such it needs links throughout. That's another bit of work waiting to see if response to the concept is enthusiastic :)
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby DwarfLord » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:52 pm

qwaletee wrote:I would recommend a bullet list of safe edits, and surprisingly unsafe ones at the bottom. Public road names (following Waze abbreviations), road directionality, and simple correction to turn retsrictions are generally safe. Adding a new public road or correcting a significant error in the alignment of a road is usually safe. PLRs as shown in the detailed text are surprisingly unsafe. Highways, whether in reality or as listed in Waze road type, are typically going to cause more alarms when done by junior editors (assuming it is even possible, since they are usually locked).

Responding to error reports (UR) is safe as long as the editor is aware of UR etiquette and has someone to ask for help if it turns out the problem is not one they can figure out how to solve.

That's a great point, the "What should I edit, then?" section could use a lot more positive suggestions and general advice on where (and where not) to focus.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:54 am

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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:30 pm

The wiki is now "live" under the title "Incorrect edits", here:

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Incorrect_edits

I've removed the placeholder images and begun the process of adding real "before" and "after" examples, which will probably take some time. It is also missing many appropriate reference links to other wikis.

If anyone wants to add reference links, that would be fantastic. I will get to it but help is welcome.

My hope for the "before" and "after" images is to keep them simple, as focused as possible on the one issue being depicted, and targeted at the most common form of the mistake. And, whenever possible, to give the incorrect edit the benefit of the doubt. That is, I'd like to avoid clearcut wacko cases and instead show cases where a conscientious but uninformed editor apparently tried to help. (Also I do like the before and after images to have matching registration and zoom, I think it looks so much more professional.) If someone feels they have images that fit this plan then by all means include them. I will be working on it too.

Thanks again for the positive and helpful feedback!
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