[Update] Road Name/USA

Moderators: MapSir, USA Champs

[Update] Road Name/USA

Postby Fredo-p » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:22 am

With the current release and unknown changes in the app v3.8.1.0, the TTS on road names may have changed as stated by KB_Steveo on the old road name thread:

https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=276&t=42135&start=110#p842026
KB_Steveo wrote:I know this thread is kind of old now, but... I've noticed a number of times you guys mention trying to lessen space used, and trying for brevity when possible and making TTS less wordy, etc. That being said, can we change the wiki so that "Exit to Kindergarten Ct" will not do?

Sorry, I don't have any ramps in my area named that way, so I'm not sure if the "new & improved voice guidance" has changed it, but it drives me nuts when I hear "Exit to Exit to Kindergarten Court" or "Exit right to Exit to Kindergarten Court" instead of just "Exit right to Kindergarten Ct"

(Maybe just keep it for LH exits so you get "Keep left to exit to Kindergarten Ct" if the consensus says to keep it at all?)


If the Road names/USA page is still undergoing changes, we should update that page to contain the template:construction format that other pages are using. Also, we need Champs in contact with Waze app Devs to find out how the TTS format has changed in the app so we don't lose man hours playing around to find the exact format.
Fredo-p
Beta tester
Beta tester
 
Posts: 1983
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:35 am
Location: AZ, NJ, NY, ND, CA
Has thanked: 270 times
Been thanked: 633 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby sketch » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:39 am

It's always been "Exit right to Exit to Kindergarten Court". The "Exit to Exit to Kindergarten Court" is new, but the redundancy has always been there, and I've heard complaints before too.

Some have been using "Exit: Kindergarten Ct" instead, because it's more similar to numbered exits. The redundancy is still there, and it's said like "Exit right to Exit. Kindergarten Court." or "Exit to Exit. Kindergarten Court." Still redundant, but also more awkward.

The final option is just to use "to Kindergarten Ct". Sounds better on TTS ("Exit [right] to Kindergarten Court"), but you lose the "exit" on screen. I think that's a fair tradeoff, though others may not.

The problem with using one for left exits and another for right exits is that, in attempting to compensate for TTS inconsistency, you create a display inconsistency (where only some exits say "Exit" on screen and others don't). If we're not comfortable losing the "Exit" on unnumbered left exits, then we have to keep it on unnumbered right exits.

Before making any big decisions here, we should be sure to get some Californians in on the discussion. If I understand correctly, California still has a huge number of unnumbered exits, so their opinion is valuable.

Hopefully, an upcoming feature will allow us to create an "exit left" command. When that happens, we should reevaluate this question.

(For numbered exits, it says "Exit [right] to Exit 123. Main Street. Anytown." This is acceptable because you are exiting (verb) to Exit 123 (specific noun). "Exit to 123" wouldn't make sense, and something like "Take exit 123 on the right to..." would require some modification of the street name string, which Waze has never done, so we have no reason to assume it ever will—that's not a convincing enough reason to change something that is as simple as it can be currently. For unnumbered exits, on the other hand, the noun tells you no more than the verb does.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
new orleans based • detroit enthusiast • usa country manager
2013 ford focus titanium hatchback 5mt • performance blue
Image Image
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5716
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1265 times
Been thanked: 1735 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby KB_Steveo » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:54 pm

sketch wrote:The "Exit to Exit to Kindergarten Court" is new
Or may have been fabricated in my mind while fixating on the redundancy for years without saying anything.... and it was late when I wrote that ;)

sketch wrote:Some have been using "Exit: Kindergarten Ct" instead, because it's more similar to numbered exits. The redundancy is still there, and it's said like "Exit right to Exit. Kindergarten Court." or "Exit to Exit. Kindergarten Court." Still redundant, but also more awkward.
Agreed, I think this is worse since it has redundancy and akwardness.

sketch wrote:The problem with using one for left exits and another for right exits is that, in attempting to compensate for TTS inconsistency, you create a display inconsistency (where only some exits say "Exit" on screen and others don't). If we're not comfortable losing the "Exit" on unnumbered left exits, then we have to keep it on unnumbered right exits.
Yes, I just mentioned it to make sure it wasn't overlooked in the conversation.

sketch wrote:Hopefully, an upcoming feature will allow us to create an "exit left" command. When that happens, we should reevaluate this question.
Probably when "continue straight" gets activated? :lol:

sketch wrote:Before making any big decisions here, we should be sure to get some Californians in on the discussion. If I understand correctly, California still has a huge number of unnumbered exits, so their opinion is valuable.
Yeah, I remember seeing a bunch in the LA area the other month without numbers.
ImageImageImage
WI State Manager
NE Wisconsin Area Manager (Green Bay / Appleton / Sturgeon Bay)
Wisconsin mapping resources curator
KB_Steveo
State Manager
State Manager
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby qwaletee » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:21 pm

Moving the word Exit to the end would sound less awkward, though not as consistent with numbered exits. Building on Sketch's note, "Exit right to Kindergarten Ct Exit" has the verb/noun pairing.

IIRC, TTS ignores parentheticals, so we might look into that.

An alternative for freeways that avoids using the word Exit twice might be "Exit right to Kindergarten Ct ramp."
US Champ / Country Manager | State Manager NY, NJ, PA, CT, MA, RI, VT, ME, NH | Northeast ARC | Mentor | Responding to Map Issues
qwaletee
US Waze Champs
US Waze Champs
 
Posts: 2855
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:42 am
Location: NYC Metro - Active throughout NE^2 (Northeast & New England)
Has thanked: 227 times
Been thanked: 1095 times

[Update] Road Name/USA

Postby sketch » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:35 pm

There's no need for anything superfluous tacked on at the end of the string. As you mentioned, it's inconsistent with other ramp names.

It's not necessary that there be two nouns in addition to each verb – "turn right on Main St" is fine with only one noun. The problem with "Exit to Exit to Kindergarten Ct" is that the second noun doesn't add any additional information, whereas the second noun in "Exit to Exit 123: Arnold St" does.

Tacking "exit" onto the end might temper the awkwardness problem, but it doesn't help with redundancy, and it kills consistency. Simply removing exit ("to Kindergarten Ct") tempers awkwardness, eliminates redundancy, and while it reduces consistency with exit ramps, it is consistent with onramps – so, on the whole, better.

The question lies in the balance between consistency and awkwardness/redundancy, and apparently in the past we have decided that consistency with numbered exits is more important. I don't think I'd personally answer it the same way, but that's how it is.

Oh, TTS doesn't ignore parentheticals. It does pause before them, not sure if it does so afterwards as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
new orleans based • detroit enthusiast • usa country manager
2013 ford focus titanium hatchback 5mt • performance blue
Image Image
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5716
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1265 times
Been thanked: 1735 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby jondrush » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:30 pm

We've been dumping EXIT on unnumbered exits. It just works better all around.
Keeping the Waze maps tidy since 2009
jondrush User Page
Image
jondrush
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 2630
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: South Eastern Pennsylvania, USA
Has thanked: 191 times
Been thanked: 500 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby sketch » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:44 pm

I agree that simply removing "Exit" seems the best course of action. The current rule ("Exit to Kindergarten Ct") was written in October 2009, long before Waze had TTS at all.
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
new orleans based • detroit enthusiast • usa country manager
2013 ford focus titanium hatchback 5mt • performance blue
Image Image
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5716
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1265 times
Been thanked: 1735 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby jemay » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:32 pm

What I have seen in California, if the exit has a number then it is "Exit ###: _____ ____" else it is coded as "to _____ ____"
with the TTS running it sound funny - exit exit to ______ ______ that is one reason I have been removing the exit from unnumbered exits.
PLEASE READ: Wiki Resources: FAQ|Map Editor|Best Practices|Editing issues?
Global Champ | Regional Coordinator for US South West - CA,NV,UT,AZ,NM,CO,HI | CM for US

DROID TURBO 2 - Android 6.0 - Verizon - Waze Ver. 4.2.0.1
jemay
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 1962
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:26 am
Location: US South West - Lakewood, CA
Has thanked: 582 times
Been thanked: 891 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby ottonomy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:30 pm

sketch wrote:I agree that simply removing "Exit" seems the best course of action. The current rule ("Exit to Kindergarten Ct") was written in October 2009, long before Waze had TTS at all.

jemay wrote:What I have seen in California, if the exit has a number then it is "Exit ###: _____ ____" else it is coded as "to _____ ____"
with the TTS running it sound funny - exit exit to ______ ______ that is one reason I have been removing the exit from unnumbered exits.


I concur.

Just to be clear, we are talking about un-signed exit numbers, correct? I don't want someone to misunderstand, visit the CalTrans page for exit numbers and think that this doesn't apply to the ones which have theoretical exit numbers, but do not have signage as of yet. What we are saying is that if there is no exit number on the BGS or a stand-alone sign, then we are leaving off "Exit" from the ramp name unless or until the number is posted.
Country Manager & Global Champ - United States
Regional Coordinator - South Atlantic
Area Manager - Southern California
ottonomy
Global Champ Mentor
Global Champ Mentor
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:31 am
Location: Los Angeles CA
Has thanked: 1169 times
Been thanked: 496 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby sketch » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:51 pm

That is precisely what I mean, correct. Even if the exit number is only on one sign, past the theoretical gore of the exit, it is worth including on the Waze segment. If it's not signed at all, then don't include it.

So, I move to change the rule for unnumbered exits (i.e., exits signed exclusively without numbers) from "Exit to Kindergarten Ct" to "to Kindergarten Ct".
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
new orleans based • detroit enthusiast • usa country manager
2013 ford focus titanium hatchback 5mt • performance blue
Image Image
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5716
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1265 times
Been thanked: 1735 times

Next

Return to US Wiki Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users