[Update] Road Name/USA

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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby KB_Steveo » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:45 pm

Another question:

If you have an exit where the local convention uses the street name when providing verbal exits, would it be OK to list the street first instead of last?
For example, no one in Green Bay would say to take the Highway 54 exit, we would just tell someone to take the Mason St exit.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby Fredo-p » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:59 pm

KB_Steveo wrote:Another question:

If you have an exit where the local convention uses the street name when providing verbal exits, would it be OK to list the street first instead of last?
For example, no one in Green Bay would say to take the Highway 54 exit, we would just tell someone to take the Mason St exit.


Wow, I just checked out Mason and I didn't know it had double roundabouts. :shock: :shock:

Since Mason St is also contains, what I think is, County Route 32 and 54, the exit may have to include them. However, it seems that, by the design of the BGS, the main name of that road is Mason St. but is also known as 32 and 54. So I guess you could make the exit Mason St and ensure that the proper sections of Mason have alt names of the 32 and 54.

Am I correct?
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby sketch » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:56 pm

KB_Steveo wrote:Another question:

If you have an exit where the local convention uses the street name when providing verbal exits, would it be OK to list the street first instead of last?
For example, no one in Green Bay would say to take the Highway 54 exit, we would just tell someone to take the Mason St exit.

No. We follow the order things are on the BGS because it's simple, uniform, easy to edit, and doesn't require any arbitrary decisionmaking. Even if no one knows or cares that Claiborne Ave is LA-39, the sign has the LA-39 shield first, so we say it first.

(I will note the one exception you spoke of recently in the JSG thread, which I am a fan of and have used myself – moving anything prefaced with "TO" on the actual sign to the end of the string.)
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby KB_Steveo » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:34 pm

Fredo-p wrote:
KB_Steveo wrote:Another question:

If you have an exit where the local convention uses the street name when providing verbal exits, would it be OK to list the street first instead of last?
For example, no one in Green Bay would say to take the Highway 54 exit, we would just tell someone to take the Mason St exit.


Wow, I just checked out Mason and I didn't know it had double roundabouts. :shock: :shock:

Since Mason St is also contains, what I think is, County Route 32 and 54, the exit may have to include them. However, it seems that, by the design of the BGS, the main name of that road is Mason St. but is also known as 32 and 54. So I guess you could make the exit Mason St and ensure that the proper sections of Mason have alt names of the 32 and 54.

Am I correct?
They're State Highways, but yes. Moot point anyway based on sketch's reply.

WisDOT now has about a 5yr love affair with roundabouts. The entire US-41 corridor from south of Oshkosh to the north end of the Green Bay Metro area has been getting roundabouts along with the Interstate standard upgrades for when I-57 is extended from Chicago to GB (via Milwaukee). If you like Mason, check this one out - I have 2 more of these that were made by lvl1 editors to KISS.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby qwaletee » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:46 am

PesachZ wrote:
CBenson wrote:
PesachZ wrote:But you also have to cover exits which have a BGS.

:?:
I'm intending to cover exits which have a BGS. Are there exits as we are defining them (i.e. ramps that are part of a grade seperated interchange) that do not have BGSs?

I can't say for certain that there are, but I figured it can't hurt to cover it if you're redoing the guideline anyways. I'm sure there's a few somewhere. And that may be a valid use for naming the ramp based on where it leads


Didn't you just do one in Queens recently?
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby qwaletee » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:51 am

sketch wrote:
KB_Steveo wrote:Another question:

If you have an exit where the local convention uses the street name when providing verbal exits, would it be OK to list the street first instead of last?
For example, no one in Green Bay would say to take the Highway 54 exit, we would just tell someone to take the Mason St exit.

No. We follow the order things are on the BGS because it's simple, uniform, easy to edit, and doesn't require any arbitrary decisionmaking. Even if no one knows or cares that Claiborne Ave is LA-39, the sign has the LA-39 shield first, so we say it first.

(I will note the one exception you spoke of recently in the JSG thread, which I am a fan of and have used myself – moving anything prefaced with "TO" on the actual sign to the end of the string.)


But, to his point, if the BGS doesn't already include too much verbiage, it might be OK to add "/ local name." I don't see much downside, so long as it doesn't result in CONFLICT with the BGS, reads the BGS FIRST, and is based on LOCAL KNOWLEDGE that the exit is called something else locally. I do see an upside in case the driver has received some sort of instructions from a local but is using Waze as a failsafe, and could otherwise become confused/concerned at the mismatch.

If the BGS is already long, then I would avoid the addition.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby sketch » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:27 am

qwaletee wrote:But, to his point, if the BGS doesn't already include too much verbiage, it might be OK to add "/ local name." I don't see much downside, so long as it doesn't result in CONFLICT with the BGS, reads the BGS FIRST, and is based on LOCAL KNOWLEDGE that the exit is called something else locally. I do see an upside in case the driver has received some sort of instructions from a local but is using Waze as a failsafe, and could otherwise become confused/concerned at the mismatch.

If the BGS is already long, then I would avoid the addition.

Yeah, I do agree with that. Adding an unsigned but known local name is fine if it wouldn't result in a too-long TTS string. But if the names are already both there, there's no reason to reverse their order.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby PesachZ » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:34 pm

qwaletee wrote:
PesachZ wrote:
CBenson wrote: :?:
I'm intending to cover exits which have a BGS. Are there exits as we are defining them (i.e. ramps that are part of a grade seperated interchange) that do not have BGSs?

I can't say for certain that there are, but I figured it can't hurt to cover it if you're redoing the guideline anyways. I'm sure there's a few somewhere. And that may be a valid use for naming the ramp based on where it leads


Didn't you just do one in Queens recently?

That was a wayfinder continuation not an exit. I was just notified of one trying to help an editor in Jersey City US-1-9 N (Truck) > SR-440, and at the termination to Communipaw Ave.
Last edited by PesachZ on Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby sketch » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:05 am

Anyway, back to what CBenson said – agreed, a heavily revised section on naming following BGSes is warranted. It should be more explicit and more detailed, and it should also cover onramps ("to I-75 S / Lexington" could easily be either an onramp or an unnumbered exit; indeed, what's the difference?).

It shall be as the guidance has always been – to follow the BGS in a uniform order: left to right, top to bottom. So, shields first across the top, then the text below (road names and/or control cities), in that order.

Also, uniformity should be emphasized: shields first, then control cities, even if they're on separate signs, and even if the control city sign is seen first as you drive.

Another section on what to do when "TO" is on the actual shield/sign (put it at the end along with any associated control cities) is in a different form on a revision of the wayfinder page currently being undertaken by PesachZ and myself.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA

Postby CBenson » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:33 am

sketch wrote:("to I-75 S / Lexington" could easily be either an onramp or an unnumbered exit; indeed, what's the difference?)

Or both. I've never understood the distinction. A ramp serves as an exit from one road and as an entrance to another.
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