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Post by markstewartspeedy77
Restrictions on School Days

We have several restrictions in my town on turns on school days. There is one road that has several significant restrictions. I can't imagine an easy way to implement this; a simple (but inaccurate) solution would put down Monday through Friday as the days. Local residents would know about these; but it would be nice if Waze could handle it.

One possibility: Add a "school day" option in the date/time dialog. Then, if a driver is navigating that would pass through a school day restricted turn, the app would ask the user (if it was during the stated day/time) if it was a school day, and if so, Waze would apply the restrictions.

Yes, this would be a significant effort, but just wanted to toss this out there for future ideas.
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Post by orbitc
PesachZ wrote:I've implemented these changes in the wiki on the Carpool, HOV, Transit lanes, and to the Best map editing practice - Handling restricted lanes section.
Looks very good Pesach. HOW does have different requirement in different areas. This certainly help. If anybody like to add/update please give feedback. Thanks.
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Post by PesachZ
russblau wrote:
CBenson wrote:Thus if you set up of HOV lanes properly with time/vehicle restrictions, then all vehicles will be prohibited from the HOV lanes during the times that the HOV restrictions are in place. This is a distinct advantage over using parking lot roads for HOV restrictions that are not in place all the time. As with the restrictions waze will route over the HOV lanes when the restrictions are not applicable. With parking lot roads, the HOV lanes will never be routed on.
One thing I have found as a user of the I-395/95 HOV lanes in Virginia is that, if you set the "private vehicle" restriction on the HOV lanes, and a driver enters the HOV lanes during the hours that the restriction is in effect, Waze will always instruct the driver to leave the HOV lanes at the next exit. (This is different from what happens if you drive onto a parking lot road.) To avoid this, don't restrict the HOV lanes themselves, but instead restrict all the entrances to and exits from the HOV lanes. Then, if a Waze user drives on the HOV lanes, Waze should direct them to the exit that is actually fastest for them to reach their destination. (This will also provide more accurate instructions in the edge cases, as where a Waze user reaches the entrance to the HOV lanes one minute before the restriction takes effect.)

Note that if this method is used, it is crucial that all exits be restricted correctly; if one is missed, Waze will route everyone on the HOV facility to that unrestricted exit segment.

We might want to add this to the Wiki page.
What is the benefit of also restricting the exits? The entrance restrictions prevents people being routed onto the HOV lanes, so the only way you can get into these HOV lanes is by going through a restricted segment, and you will never be routed onto them. As mentioned earlier having no restrictions on the actual lanes avoids "proceed to highlighted route" problems. Restricting exit lanes though, seems like introduces more problems than it solves (I'm not aware of any benefit other than increasing the already (double) restricted entrance penalty). However as you mentioned the risk is "if one is missed, Waze will route everyone on the HOV facility to that unrestricted exit segment."

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Post by PesachZ
russblau wrote:The main benefit is where HOV starts at 4 pm and a user's route takes them by the HOV entrance at 3:50. If the exits are restricted, Waze will know to get them off before 4:00.
If main benefit is only applicable on HOV lanes with are time restricted, perhaps we should implement a modified version of this guidance.
Restrict the exit segments as well IF any portion of this HOV lane is only in effect at certain times. If it is a 24/7 HOV lane, only restrict the entrance segments
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Post by PesachZ
PhantomSoul wrote:
russblau wrote:
PesachZ wrote:[russblau said: The main benefit is where HOV starts at 4 pm and a user's route takes them by the HOV entrance at 3:50. If the exits are restricted, Waze will know to get them off before 4:00.]

If main benefit is only applicable on HOV lanes with are time restricted, perhaps we should implement a modified version of this guidance.

[russblau said: Restrict the exit segments as well IF any portion of this HOV lane is only in effect at certain times. If it is a 24/7 HOV lane, only restrict the entrance segments]

That makes sense to me.

In response to Sketch, at least in Virginia, there are signs prominently posted along the HOV lanes that say "HOV enforcement starts at X:XX". State Police have made it clear that if you enter the lane close to the start of the HOV period, it is your responsibility to make sure you exit in time. Personally, I don't ever use these lanes close to the beginnings of the HOV periods, but I do sometimes enter them right after the end (in fact, I sometimes time my departure to or from work to allow me to do this), and I have indeed seen police on more than one occasion waiting by the entrance and ticketing anyone who tries to enter one minute before the end of the HOV period.
Shouldn't the other fork, at each possible exit to the HOV lanes, which stays in the HOV lanes actually have a little way-finder segment that blocks all non-HOV vehicles during times when such restrictions are in effect? This way if a non-HOV vehicle is in the lane when the clock strikes 4:00 (for example), the directions are pretty much guaranteed to tell you to exit out of the HOV lanes at the next possible opportunity.
If every single exit is set with a timed HOV restriction, Waze will not route you onto the HOV Lane if it suspects that you won't be able to get off in time, or it will tell you to take an earlier exit so you can get off in time. However if you get stuck in traffic on the HOV Lane which then to delays your e.t.a you may still be on there after the cutoff.

Currently we can't do this with Wayfinder like restricted segments at each exit, because the HOV restrictions blocks all vehicle until a future client repeat allows wazers to set a vehicle profile. Therefore as Russ said if we did that everyone would always be told to exit the HOV at the first available exit.

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Last edited by sketch on Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed quotes
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Post by PesachZ
PhantomSoul wrote:You would only have to apply the hack in one place, making it easier to remove later, no?
You would have to apply it at every entrance, and making the enforcement time earlier doesn't account for additional traffic delays unless you factor that as well, which will prevent someone only going a short distance from being routed through the HOV slightly before enforcement starts.

Since Waze will only route onto the HOV when it is not enforced (is open to all) we should let Waze determine how far down the road you can go before enforcement begins. If you don't have enough time to go the whole way it may still decide to use the HOV for the first few exits before enforcement starts.

This is only truly a concern for the people who were navigated into the HOV, those who went on their own judgment against the navigation route should be responsible to get off on time, or be HOV compliant.

Since it seems from this thread that police enforcement can be extremely punctual, perhaps we do need to do something to account for the ETA to the exit being off by a few minutes. IMHO this would be better accomplished by placing the HOV restrictions on the exits for lanes with only specific times enforcement. We should make the enforcement time for the exits 5-15 minutes earlier. The entrances don't need to be made earlier, because of you are delayed en route and arrive at the entrance passed the restriction time, you should be rerouted not to go through the restriction.

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Post by PesachZ
CBenson wrote:Not sure why we would need to remove anything. The hack at this point is really removing the restrictions from the main HOV lanes, rather than adding them to the exits.

Currently, we don't label all of the segments HOV restricted because if you are HOV compliant and take the HOV lanes, waze will immediately re-route you off of them through the route with the fewest HOV restricted segments. Marking just the entrances (and exits) solves this problem. But this is only a problem while we can't indicate HOV status in the client. With the entrances and exits marked with the correct times, nothing would need to be removed (or changed) to have HOV routing work. When we can indicate HOV status in the client we could then add the restrictions to main HOV lanes as well.
I agree but as I just mentioned at the end of my previous post, for the same if being cautious and preventing causing a Wazer to inadvertantly get a ticket due to traffic etc delays we may want to adjust the times on the exit lanes earlier by 5-15 minutes.

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Post by PesachZ
PhantomSoul wrote:I'm not sure I'm understanding what you all mean by "placing HOV restrictions on the exits." It seems to me this would force directions to keep you in the HOV lanes regardless once you're already there - even if Waze figures you should exit for traffic concerns or whatever.

Frankly, I really don't think any of this is our problem until HOV is fully supported by the Waze client, and the whole danged lane and all it's approaches and exits should just be private roads (off limits to navigation) until then - just like we don't give any guidance at toll-collection areas whether to go into like high-speed EZPass lanes or not.
If every possible exit is restricted, Waze will just pick the best one to use since the penalties are all equal. So if you choose to be in the lanes during enforcement, as soon as you enter the lanes you will be rerouted using the best exit from the lanes. If the restriction is only during certain hours, then Waze can use the lanes for any vehicle if its faster during the hours the HOV is not in effect. However to ensure Waze doesn't keep you in the lanes past the enforcement times we add exit restrictions as well.

When calculating a route before the enforcement time, Waze will take into consideration the eta to the exit ramp and the enforcement time on that ramps restriction. Therefore it will only tell you to use the lanes if it thinks you can exit in time. Or it will tell to take an earlier exit if you can get to that exit in time.

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Post by PesachZ
PhantomSoul wrote:Ok. It's only temporary anyway.
And since we're suggesting using the HOV restrictions as CBenson said, they won't have to be removed later (with the exception of testing the things on the exit lanes if we choose to make them earlier now as a precaution).

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Post by PesachZ
qwaletee wrote:...<snip>

If exits are not implemented
...<snip />...

Negatives:
* Non-HOV drivers who enter legally but close to the start of restrictions will not be warned to exit (a bit of nannying)
...snip
I would argue that if Waze routed the person onto the mixed use HOV lane when it was open, it has the responsibility to route them off it before enforcement starts. Otherwise nanny or not Waze will be causing a lot of tickets.
So we need to restrict the exits on lanes which are open to all for some time.

On lanes which are never open to the public I agree exits don't need to be restricted. If the penalty proves not strong enough, Waze should fix that rather than us hacking to restrict every exit just to have a double penalty.

I didn't see you mention the suggestion to inflate the enforcement time (make it start 5-15 minutes earlier) on the exit ramps to account for variations in eta. Or for insuring an overlap in the restriction times for reversible lanes.

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