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Junctions, Nodes and Geopoints, oh my!

Post by tonestertm
I decided to start a separate topic for this, because it's a globally applicable subject.

Lately, the term, "node", has been slung about quite casually. It is most often meant as a junction--the meeting of two or more roads (segments). (As defined in the wiki glossary since 2010)

However, sometimes "node" is used to mean what is currently referred to as a "Geonode" (formerly "handle", as well). Sometimes it means the point at the end of a dead-end....

In fact, the Glossary currently indicates there are no less than five possible usages for the term, "node". A forum post from 2011 quotes the glossary at that time as defining a node as what we currently call a geonode. This has obviously been a slippery subject over time.

I move that it's time for some fundamental clarification, and a more precise definition and usage of "node" and different terminology for the "other usages".

bgodette in another thread, makes a case for "geonodes" to be called Geometry Points (perhaps, "geopoints", in shorthand, which I rather like).

There are other discrepancies due to terminology developed before the understanding of the code, but I'll let bgodette speak to these directly, if he wishes, so as not to put any words in his mouth. ;) It may or may not be worth dislodging the current terms, but that should be up to the community.

I just think it would be nice to be able to communicate about things without having to wonder, or possibly misinterpret, what someone means when they use a multi-purpose term.
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Post by CBenson
As you note, this has been an issue for some time. No forum or wiki entry is going to solve it. The best thing to do is not use the term "node" as it is ambiguous. Always provide an adjective so you are clear. Thus, "junction node" and "geometry node" should be clear. But "node" could mean either at this point.
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Post by DwarfLord
kentsmith9 wrote:As CBenson noted here, node itself is too ambiguous anyway. It should always be referenced with an adjective to ensure clarity.
Complete agreement.

I will confess I am hoping the shorthand "geonode" does not catch on. I have a background in Earth science so every time I see the "geo" prefix I naturally think it has something to do with the Earth. Geology, geodesy, geomagnetic...geonode? I keep thinking it must be a kind of small round rock found in abundance near roads :mrgreen:
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Post by DwarfLord
I wonder if this particular horse has left the barn...

My grandmother (born in 1898) always called a refrigerator an icebox even though that term began to go out of use in the 40's. It's really tough to get people to change their nomenclature once they're in a habit.

I sympathize with the motivation to declare that "node" shall always and only mean "junction node", I'm just not sure the effort to stamp out other usage will bear much fruit. Qualifying "node" with a descriptive prefix may gain in practicality what it loses in brevity.
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Post by kentsmith9
In May 2013 I started this thread on this topic. It generated the image you see in the Wiki for node.

In February 2014 I started this followup thread on this topic. As CBenson noted here, node itself is too ambiguous anyway. It should always be referenced with an adjective to ensure clarity.
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Post by kentsmith9
We tried to do the same thing with Rank and Elevation, but it is still rampantly crossing over. However that should not stop us from trying.

As for your proposal that we only have one kind of Node, we currently have four https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Glossary#Nodes. I thought we already solved this with using adjectives before the node term.
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Post by qwaletee
So we're still OK with using the term node for all things currently in teh glossary that use the term node, but we're proposing that anyone who fails to qualify and clarify WHICH TYPE of node shall be summarily tasked with cleaning up all URs over 30 days old at the closest major metropolis.
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Post by qwaletee
DwarfLord wrote:I wonder if this particular horse has left the barn...

My grandmother (born in 1898) always called a refrigerator an icebox even though that term began to go out of use in the 40's. It's really tough to get people to change their nomenclature once they're in a habit.

I sympathize with the motivation to declare that "node" shall always and only mean "junction node", I'm just not sure the effort to stamp out other usage will bear much fruit. Qualifying "node" with a descriptive prefix may gain in practicality what it loses in brevity.
Practicality? When did that notion ever come into the conversation?
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Post by sketch
"Handle" is a much more descriptive term for what we call a "geometry node". If we are going to signal a shift—which we have done before—then "node" should refer exclusively to "junction nodes".

A node is a point at which branches of a network connect.

A handle is something you hold onto when moving something around.

We did the same thing with "rank" and "elevation", I don't see why we can't do the same here.
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Post by sketch
Well, I think those can be easily subdivided into two categories. Maybe 3, actually. Geometry handles and "inter-geometry handles" (pull to create a new geometry handle), junction nodes and dead-end nodes (a junction node with nothing connected to it), and segment endpoints.
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