[Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

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[Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:53 pm

I noticed that the When to Split a Two-Way Road (and when not to) section seems to be missing something which I know we have guided editors on in the past. Specifically, a split road is advisable when a house address or business (with no off-street parking) is located directly on the street but is not accessible from the opposite direction of travel due to median or other obstruction.

Is this in there but I am just missing it? If this guidance is too broad, how should it read?
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Re: [Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby sketch » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:10 pm

It's not there, and I don't think it's ever been there, but it probably should be.

IME some editors are too "unsplit-happy", probably because the Wiki isn't quite clear enough, or at least isn't firm enough about it. For example, it should be clarified that a road should remain split if any of those criteria are met; i.e., it's an OR list, not an AND list.

Also I know we're pretty far dug in at this point but the term "split" itself bugs me. Nowhere is such a road called this. It's a "divided" road.
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Re: [Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby Fredo-p » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:12 pm

Alan,

That specific "when to split" scenario isn't in the wiki. Otto brought it up in the Wiki Hangouts.

It's also been asked here.
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Re: [Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby sketch » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:16 am

Alan, this sentence should (must) be added.

More importantly, this sentence needs to be removed outright: "Generally only freeways or major highways are split into two one-way roads."

I also propose a clarifying change to the language:
From "A road should be split when:"
To "A road should be split when any of the following conditions are met:"

Fredo-p wrote:Alan,

That specific "when to split" scenario isn't in the wiki. Otto brought it up in the Wiki Hangouts.

It's also been asked here.

Sure it is. How to split is not in the Wiki, I believe.
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Re: [Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby Fredo-p » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:25 am

sketch wrote:Alan, this sentence should (must) be added.

More importantly, this sentence needs to be removed outright: "Generally only freeways or major highways are split into two one-way roads."

I also propose a clarifying change to the language:
From "A road should be split when:"
To "A road should be split when any of the following conditions are met:"

Fredo-p wrote:Alan,

That specific "when to split" scenario isn't in the wiki. Otto brought it up in the Wiki Hangouts.

It's also been asked here.

Sure it is. How to split is not in the Wiki, I believe.


Ah, you are correct.
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Re: [Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby DwarfLord » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:57 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Specifically, a split road is advisable when a house address or business (with no off-street parking) is located directly on the street but is not accessible from the opposite direction of travel due to median or other obstruction.

Agreed, although to avoid lozengy highways I wonder if this should read "multiple house addresses or businesses with no off-street parking"; or perhaps "due to a lengthy median or other obstruction". Hmm, can't figure out how to say this best, but you know what I mean. Something to ensure that roads don't get split just for one address or for a median that lasts only 50 feet; either that, or something that says a road should not go back and forth too often between split and unsplit.

A couple of additional suggestions:

1. Another criterion for splitting: extensive presence of adjacent or frontage roads requires splitting the main road so that Waze is less likely to snap drivers in the outermost lanes to the adjacent roads by mistake.

2. More generally, I'd love to see the guidance state more clearly that UNsplit is the default. In other words, splitting a road carries the burden of proof. For old-timers this is so obvious we don't consciously think about it -- I mean, when we put in a random new bit of road, we generally don't start by assuming it should be split and then contemplating reasons why it shouldn't be. But it's not as obvious to new editors. And, making the judgement gets harder as you get to borderline cases if it's not clear which approach has the burden of proof. This shouldn't be a controversial adjustment as long as the list of things requiring splitting is sufficient.
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Re: [Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby Fredo-p » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:29 pm

Maybe add something like "Just because it's like that on other map editors doesn't mean it will work here" ;)
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Re: [Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby sketch » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:35 pm

DwarfLord wrote:2. More generally, I'd love to see the guidance state more clearly that UNsplit is the default. In other words, splitting a road carries the burden of proof. For old-timers this is so obvious we don't consciously think about it -- I mean, when we put in a random new bit of road, we generally don't start by assuming it should be split and then contemplating reasons why it shouldn't be. But it's not as obvious to new editors. And, making the judgement gets harder as you get to borderline cases if it's not clear which approach has the burden of proof. This shouldn't be a controversial adjustment as long as the list of things requiring splitting is sufficient.

I thought it was already written by this, but I can certainly agree. It currently reads "Split when..." "Unsplit when..." without really defining the middle per se.

The lists can be retained, but changing the text before it should resolve the ambiguity. Something like...

"Generally, a road should be undivided unless it meets any of the requirements for dividing a road."

"A road must be divided if it meets any of the following criteria for a divided road:"

and

"However, a road must be undivided if it is possible and legal to make a left turn at any point along the road."

Something like that.
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Re: [Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:52 pm

Thanks for all the input. Changes have been posted.
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Re: [Update] Best map editing practice: split road guidance

Postby bluemigui » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:44 am

Hi Guys,

Just a clarification from this specific criteria of when to split:

"multiple houses or businesses with no off-street parking are located directly on the street but are not accessible from the opposite direction of travel due to lengthy median, obstruction, or traffic control signage"

How "lengthy" would a median be to qualify for splitting?
I believe we should put a number on that as the term "lengthy" seems to be quite subjective.

DwarfLord wrote: Something to ensure that roads don't get split just for one address or for a median that lasts only 50 feet


I agree with DwarfLord that you don't just split due to a median that short.

So I suggest maybe splitting should/can be done when a median is generally at least already a quarter mile long in a highly commercial and high traffic area? This way, the 0.2 mile prompt will still be given to alert the driver of the upcoming turn.

Is a quarter mile long enough?
Because not splitting in this case would practically result to being off route by at least half a mile, starting at the wrong side of the road directly across the actual destination then travelling back the same length.

Its really quite a hassle finding yourself on the wrong side of the road and needing to drive along moderate to heavy traffic just to go back to the correct side of the road, when it could have been avoided if the the road was drawn as split in the first place.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
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