Improper Detour Prevention Mechanism/Algorithm

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Re: Improper Detour Prevention Mechanism/Algorithm

Postby PesachZ » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:17 am

Krixera wrote:FzNk,
Almost every U-Turns on normal streets are legal, especially in housing estates and commecial areas where medians are narrow(<16m). All U-Turn routings are being avoided on such medians for no logical reason. Like I've mentioned many, many times, it's more effective to be implemented on highways only.

Please keep in mind the rules of algorithm affect the entire world, every country has the same algorithm. A change to the algorithm will change routing in every country, and the laws for where U-turns are illegal is different in many countries. In my country there are many local residential streets where U-turns are not allowed, and this algorithm is used effectively to prevent them.
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Re: Improper Detour Prevention Mechanism/Algorithm

Postby Krixera » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:19 pm

PesachZ wrote:
Krixera wrote:FzNk,
Almost every U-Turns on normal streets are legal, especially in housing estates and commecial areas where medians are narrow(<16m). All U-Turn routings are being avoided on such medians for no logical reason. Like I've mentioned many, many times, it's more effective to be implemented on highways only.

Please keep in mind the rules of algorithm affect the entire world, every country has the same algorithm. A change to the algorithm will change routing in every country, and the laws for where U-turns are illegal is different in many countries. In my country there are many local residential streets where U-turns are not allowed, and this algorithm is used effectively to prevent them.


Indeed, not many countries have the same rules. In our country, this algorithm is not significant and it creates more harm than good. Many shorter routes are being ignored which causes users to take a longer route(which they didn't do so), and it also trigger many users to report wrong direction when they are experiencing this. I'm very honest to testify that I'm one of the victim to this design and I've met many improper routing myself and I'm very frustrated when I'm experiencing it. Sorry to put this in a harsh way but I really hope they can come out with an even better design, or make this algorithm unique to suit the adequacy in each different countries(and I know it's very hard to implement given of such condition)
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Re: Improper Detour Prevention Mechanism/Algorithm

Postby voludu2 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:22 am

I agree that the current algorithm for 3-segment u-turn avoidance is kind of strange.
I have thought so since I first encountered the rule.
It is very confusing for newer editors, and results in some legal u-turns being avoided while some illegal u-turns are permitted.

Several editors have worked on improving this section of the wiki page, but it is still confusing to many editors, and still somewhat difficult to get right.
https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/U-turn_preve ... ng_U_turns

As has been mentioned above, there are several ways to break the rules. Length of the median segment is one. Number of segments is another. Angles of the dual Carriageway is a third. Creating a 4th segment is a 4th approach.

I would welcome some more sensible mechanism for 3-segment u-turn prevention, but before removing the current mechanism, a lot of work would have to be done all over the world.

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Re: Improper Detour Prevention Mechanism/Algorithm

Postby Krixera » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:59 am

Yes, that's why I've created this post. I'm telling a major problem I've encountered as a normal driver in my daily routes. So many longer routes were being suggested due to this algorithm in effect. Many Wazers didn't realise it's due to this immature design. Since detour prevention is being used at highways and primary roads why allow normal street to have this effect? I suggest that developer should add an exclusion in which if any of the 3 segments involves a street type, this mechanism will be bypassed. DETOUR PREVENTION MECHANISM SHOULD NOT INVOLVE STREET LEVEL ROADS as a logical and practical approach. Please consider my advice carefully as this mechanism has definitely caused unpleasurable longer routings which opposes Waze theme of 'outsmarting traffic'.
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Re: Improper Detour Prevention Mechanism/Algorithm

Postby PesachZ » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:29 am

Krixera wrote:Yes, that's why I've created this post. I'm telling a major problem I've encountered as a normal driver in my daily routes. So many longer routes were being suggested due to this algorithm in effect. Many Wazers didn't realise it's due to this immature design. Since detour prevention is being used at highways and primary roads why allow normal street to have this effect? I suggest that developer should add an exclusion in which if any of the 3 segments involves a street type, this mechanism will be bypassed. DETOUR PREVENTION MECHANISM SHOULD NOT INVOLVE STREET LEVEL ROADS as a logical and practical approach. Please consider my advice carefully as this mechanism has definitely caused unpleasurable longer routings which opposes Waze theme of 'outsmarting traffic'.

Just to be clear Detour Prevention as defined in the wiki does not apply to street type (local) roads. U-turn prevention is applied to street type roads, because in many countries it is possible to have an illegal U-turn on a local street that is not a highway. This algorithm is necessary as it is the only means to effectively stop Waze from giving users in thise countries illegal routes recommending illegal and unsafe maneuvers. I agree with you that it is cumbersome, has unintended side effects, and am hoping for a better solution so we won't need this any more. Perhaps the long-awaited Junction Box will be our answer once fully deployed, but even then we would first need to find and update all the places on the map where these U-turns are illegal, to use the new mechanism, before we could turn the old one off.

We are all editors here, none of us have any control on what algorithms are used and what should be developed. We can only make suggestions to staff, and see what happens. For now this is the tool we have, so we must work with it and update the maps to make it work as best as possible.
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