Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby sketch » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:33 am

I'm saying that when they're present, the situation is worth investigating, to see if perhaps a segment was erroneously set to one-way or the wrong way. And once we get there and verify the map is correct, we can eliminate them really quickly with JNF anyway, to 'mark' that there is no longer a situation that might need fixing.

IME revcons are as good as or better than MPs at indicating problems on the map.
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby sketch » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:17 pm

voludu2 wrote:
. . . via a [[Glossary#junction|junction]] . . .

I know this is not related, and I know I haven't been around as much, so I guess I must have missed this discussion...

...but how on earth did we as a community arrive on junction being less confusing than node?? The word "junction" does not appear anywhere in the editor when you select or do anything else with a node.

Glossary entry for "junction"
Glossary entry for "node"

"Five different types of nodes"? Dead end nodes and segment endpoint nodes and junction nodes are all the same thing. The only difference is whether or not they're connected to anything else. If you attach a new segment to a 'dead end node' then it becomes a 'junction node'. It's still a node.

I know we call "geometry nodes" 'nodes' but cementing this in the lexicon was a mistake. A node is a point on a network where different segments of that network meet. A "geometry node" is not a node. It is a handle. It is a device by which you grab/move/manipulate a larger thing.

I do not understand how we are okay with defining "five different kinds of nodes" when we were so concerned about confusion between lock/user level and segment level that we changed both terms, to "rank" and "elevation", and hammered everyone who said "L4" or "L6" for so many months, and in the end relented because staff changed the editor to say "elevation".

The definition of "junction", by the way, needs to be changed to include the "junction box" now. "Junction" should be a disambiguation between "Junction box" and "Node". It is absurd that we are defining "Junction" as if it alone is the name of a "node", especially considering that the editor itself calls it a node and always has.

[/soapbox]
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby sketch » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:05 pm

CBenson wrote:Doubt it, the discussion has been ongoing since at least 2011 - https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=276&t=103908

That is the discussion I recall. I do not recall ever settling on the idea that "junction" is an acceptable shorthand for "node" or "junction node". If you need to spell it out with two words every time, fine, but if it walks like a node, talks like a node, and the editor calls it a node, then it's at the very least a "node".
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby tonestertm » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:33 pm

I like the latest version, with the small exception that, in general, I don't care for words like "recent" in undated text that is intended to endure for some time.

Perhaps simplify that sentence to something along the lines of "They are no longer a problem." (attempting to avoid duplicating the glossary text, and the last paragraph, re: routing / engine )
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Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby tonytx05 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:13 pm

I'd like to recommend that the page on reverse connectivity be updated to include a recommendation on how to best fix this revcons. Just a quick explanation of how to select the node, disallow all turns, then allow all turns should fix the problem, but isn't intuitive to new editors.

Wiki Link
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby tonytx05 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:19 am

PesachZ wrote:...Instead a small article explaining "what they are, that they used to require being fixed, and are no longer an issue because <fill in reason here>", would probably go a lot longer to transfer the knowledge we have to the terms of thousands of editors who still think dealing with RevCons is an important task.


So as someone relatively new to this, why are these no longer an issue?
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby tonytx05 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:15 pm

voludu2 wrote:Then how about with this slight change...


I like it the last write up.
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby voludu2 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:33 am

I think at, in the short term, it is useful to have something about revcons so map editors searching the wiki can learn exactly that they don't need to bother.

Eventually, the topic could be added to a page listing things we don't need to do any more, but which used to be important. A list like this could be useful to returning editors trying to catch up on changed in the last year, for example.

Fix Revcons. Allow u-turns on unconnected ends of segments. Remove all u-turn arrows. It's a growing list of things we do not need to do any linger.
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby voludu2 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:41 am

How about replacing the article with this. It begins with a summary and guidance.

Then ends with more detail. Technical description is mixed with advice in this article.
Both are global -- we have been told that revcon is now a non-issue on all servers.

If this is not correct, please correct it. Once the corrections stop coming in, I will offer to replace the contents with the corrected version. Thank you for your help.

Here is a first draft.

"Reverse connectivity," often abbreviated "revcon" or "RevCon," happens when a hidden turn is allowed going the wrong direction into a one-way street (against traffic), or leading the wrong direction out of a one-way street. Recent changes to the Waze routing engine mean that revcons are not important. Editors should not fix them.

A connection (turn allowed) from one [[Glossary#segment|segment]] to another via a [[Glossary#junction|junction]] which goes against the directionality of at least one of the segments is called a Reverse Connection, and these segments have "reverse connectivity." Though it is hard to see this in the editor, two segments of a one-way road connected together could have an allowed "turn" in the opposite direction of the flow of traffic, or directionality, of the segments. This can be seen in the editor by turning both segments to 2-way and then seeing the location of the allowed turns.

Earlier versions of the Waze routing engine treated revcons as possible routes where none was allowed. Scripts, such as [[Community Plugins, Extensions and Tools#Highlights for Landmarks and_Segments|Color Highlighting]], WME Toolbox, and WME Validator featured tools to highlight and to fix revcons. These tools are no longer necessary.
Last edited by voludu2 on Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby voludu2 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:19 am

The discussion of what to do about toolbox can happen on the toolbox topic.
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