Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby voludu2 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:44 am

So changing guidance for this might be premature?

@nzahn1 -- I see your point. What I wrote had a mixed message anyway. It says it is not important to the Waze routing, but could be important for spotting actual editing errors. The guidance is unclear.

Anyone trying to use them as evidence of a clean map will want to clean them up so they don't trip over the same revcons repeatedly during inspections. But we are telling editors not to waste time to clean them up, which also implies not posting unlock/update requests to clean them up.

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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby AndyPoms » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:22 am

Just because they are ignored in the routing engine now doesn't mean that they will be in the future. Waze has made changes in the past that have had unexpected results. RevCons are still errors on the map that should be corrected, they just aren't critical fixes that are needed right now.
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby voludu2 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:51 am

Then how about with this slight change:
"Reverse connectivity," often abbreviated "revcon" or "RevCon," happens when a hidden turn is allowed going the wrong direction into a one-way street (against traffic), or leading the wrong direction out of a one-way street. Recent changes to the Waze routing engine mean that revcons are not important. Editors do not need to fix them.

A connection (turn allowed) from one [[Glossary#segment|segment]] to another via a [[Glossary#junction|junction]] which goes against the direction of at least one of the segments is called a Reverse Connection, and these segments have "reverse connectivity." Though it is hard to see this in the editor, two segments of a one-way road connected together could have an allowed "turn" in the opposite direction of the flow of traffic, or directionality, of the segments. This can be seen in the editor by turning both segments to 2-way and then seeing the location of the allowed turns.

Earlier versions of the Waze routing engine treated revcons as possible routes where none was allowed. Scripts, such as [[Community Plugins, Extensions and Tools#Highlights for Landmarks and_Segments|Color Highlighting]], WME Toolbox, and WME Validator feature tools to highlight or to eliminate reverse connections.

Although reverse connections have no effect on routing, they can highlight problems on the map, such as a segment accidentally set one way the wrong way or one way when it ought to be two way.

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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby iluvstlucia » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:56 am

PesachZ wrote:
Fredo-p wrote:Here's a question. If RevCons are not a thing anymore, but Toolbox shows and offers to fix it, what exactly is Toolbox "fixing"?

Also, I like the writeup so far.

RevCons are still "a thing" in the sense that they continue to exist. They are no longer a concern since the routing server is able to compensate for them, and staff has said "not to worry about them, they won't affect routing".

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This would be the same staff that said labeling a Place as a "Gas Station" would suppress "Missing Road" map problems?

May I be so bold as to suggest that we need to fix/squash them - with extreme prejudice - ASAP. Revcons may not be a problem to staff in the immediate future, but we really have no way of telling what will happen when the conditions change surrounding a revcon... a connection (or connections) labeled one-way around a one-way become two-way, or future staffers wonder why previous staffers built some sort of algorithm that seems unnecessarily complicated...
Just do it right the first (or as soon as possible after the revcon was found) time , and we can sleep easier knowing Wazers won't be led down - literally - the wrong road.
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby tonytx05 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:15 pm

voludu2 wrote:Then how about with this slight change...


I like it the last write up.
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby Poncewattle » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:57 am

Was going through a mentoring session and noticed the RevCon wiki page is still the old material saying it affects routing. I do like the proposed change above from last year, although if you wanted to be safe you could say "Although reverse connections currently have no effect on routing
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby voludu2 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:19 pm

Then how about with this slight change to the slight change:
"Reverse connectivity," often abbreviated "revcon" or "RevCon," happens when a hidden turn is allowed going the wrong direction into a one-way street (against traffic), or leading the wrong direction out of a one-way street. Recent changes to the Waze routing engine mean that revcons are not important. Editors do not need to fix them.

A connection (turn allowed) from one [[Glossary#segment|segment]] to another via a [[Glossary#junction|junction]] which goes against the direction of at least one of the segments is called a Reverse Connection, and these segments have "reverse connectivity." Though it is hard to see this in the editor, two segments of a one-way road connected together could have an allowed "turn" in the opposite direction of the flow of traffic, or directionality, of the segments. This can be seen in the editor by turning both segments to 2-way and then seeing the location of the allowed turns.

Earlier versions of the Waze routing engine treated revcons as possible routes where none was allowed. Scripts, such as [[Community Plugins, Extensions and Tools#Highlights for Landmarks and_Segments|Color Highlighting]], WME Toolbox, and WME Validator feature tools to highlight or to eliminate reverse connections.

Although reverse connections currently have no effect on routing, they can highlight problems on the map, such as a segment accidentally set one way the wrong way or one way when it ought to be two way.

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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby tonestertm » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:33 pm

I like the latest version, with the small exception that, in general, I don't care for words like "recent" in undated text that is intended to endure for some time.

Perhaps simplify that sentence to something along the lines of "They are no longer a problem." (attempting to avoid duplicating the glossary text, and the last paragraph, re: routing / engine )
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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby voludu2 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:59 pm

Ok then how about the slightly-less-repetitive:
"Reverse connectivity," often abbreviated "revcon" or "RevCon," is a connection (turn allowed) from one [[Glossary#segment|segment]] to another via a [[Glossary#junction|junction]] which goes against the direction of at least one of the segments. This can be seen in WME by turning both segments to 2-way and then seeing all the allowed turns. Revcons make no difference to the Waze routing engine. Editors do not need to fix them.

Earlier versions of the Waze routing engine treated revcons as possible routes where none was allowed. Scripts, such as [[Community Plugins, Extensions and Tools#Highlights for Landmarks and_Segments|Color Highlighting]], WME Toolbox, and WME Validator feature tools to highlight or to eliminate reverse connections.

Although reverse connections currently have no effect on routing, they can highlight problems on the map, such as a segment accidentally set one way the wrong way or one way when it ought to be two way.

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Re: Fixing Reverse Connections (RevCons)

Postby sketch » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:17 pm

voludu2 wrote:
. . . via a [[Glossary#junction|junction]] . . .

I know this is not related, and I know I haven't been around as much, so I guess I must have missed this discussion...

...but how on earth did we as a community arrive on junction being less confusing than node?? The word "junction" does not appear anywhere in the editor when you select or do anything else with a node.

Glossary entry for "junction"
Glossary entry for "node"

"Five different types of nodes"? Dead end nodes and segment endpoint nodes and junction nodes are all the same thing. The only difference is whether or not they're connected to anything else. If you attach a new segment to a 'dead end node' then it becomes a 'junction node'. It's still a node.

I know we call "geometry nodes" 'nodes' but cementing this in the lexicon was a mistake. A node is a point on a network where different segments of that network meet. A "geometry node" is not a node. It is a handle. It is a device by which you grab/move/manipulate a larger thing.

I do not understand how we are okay with defining "five different kinds of nodes" when we were so concerned about confusion between lock/user level and segment level that we changed both terms, to "rank" and "elevation", and hammered everyone who said "L4" or "L6" for so many months, and in the end relented because staff changed the editor to say "elevation".

The definition of "junction", by the way, needs to be changed to include the "junction box" now. "Junction" should be a disambiguation between "Junction box" and "Node". It is absurd that we are defining "Junction" as if it alone is the name of a "node", especially considering that the editor itself calls it a node and always has.

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