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Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:39 pm
by jr1982jr
Nice job on the writeup. I have to say that this is the most complex article I have read here though. I like the content!

For everyone but Carl, since he was the one that sent me here, there is a JB in my area that I was studying today and I had questions (the JB in question so happens to be the example in the "Effects In Editor" section). I would not have found the information about the SB section not having an associated letter if that had not been one of my questions. I did not see the R5 limit until my 4th read through the document. I hate to ask why the limit rather than the traditional limit of the highest link in the box (which would also be the limit on placing the JB in the first place). I still think some of our senior editor level locked items go unmanaged because that group is so small. I know I won't ask outside my usual group of 5+'s for an unlock (or change) like this without an emergency.

My final comment really doesn't pertain, I guess, but I was concerned that there was not enough about situations to NOT use the JB. Since it will be R5+, that should be no issue. I can tell you though, it'll be a cold day in hell before I purposely lock a street to 5+, that isn't already locked before I start work, for anything but someone seriously screwing with the content and I still believe that's a situation better handled administratively rather than via a lock. I do think this limit will seriously decrease the knowledge spread about the application of the JBs thus limiting their implementation in places they really could provide help to a tough situation. The only reason my original problem ended up in this writeup is because I was asking for help in GHO and Carl happened along at the right time. We are compartmentalizing ourselves with GHO and it could have easily gone a very different way that day.

Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:03 pm
by PesachZ
jr1982jr wrote:Nice job on the writeup. I have to say that this is the most complex article I have read here though. I like the content!

For everyone but Carl, since he was the one that sent me here, there is a JB in my area that I was studying today and I had questions (the JB in question so happens to be the example in the "Effects In Editor" section). I would not have found the information about the SB section not having an associated letter if that had not been one of my questions. I did not see the R5 limit until my 4th read through the document. I hate to ask why the limit rather than the traditional limit of the highest link in the box (which would also be the limit on placing the JB in the first place). I still think some of our senior editor level locked items go unmanaged because that group is so small. I know I won't ask outside my usual group of 5+'s for an unlock (or change) like this without an emergency.

My final comment really doesn't pertain, I guess, but I was concerned that there was not enough about situations to NOT use the JB. Since it will be R5+, that should be no issue. I can tell you though, it'll be a cold day in hell before I purposely lock a street to 5+, that isn't already locked before I start work, for anything but someone seriously screwing with the content and I still believe that's a situation better handled administratively rather than via a lock. I do think this limit will seriously decrease the knowledge spread about the application of the JBs thus limiting their implementation in places they really could provide help to a tough situation. The only reason my original problem ended up in this writeup is because I was asking for help in GHO and Carl happened along at the right time. We are compartmentalizing ourselves with GHO and it could have easily gone a very different way that day.


Quick comment, the rank 5 limit is set by staff, not something the community requested. It is that way due to its effect and limitations, they want to ensure editors learn and understand the tool, before adding or modifying JBs. The way they ensure this is limiting to higher ranks whom they have more faith in. We a similler roll out with Real-Time-Closures, they were initially limited to rank 5, now in the US it has been lowered to rank 4. If it were up to me the would be no limit on them at all, but this is a staff decision.

This not the most complicated wiki page by a long shot, but that sentiment does give credence to the decision to limit JB usage by restricting it's permissions. It's a new tool and it is complex.

I agree we should have a detailed section about when not to use JB, and viable alternatives. I started that concept a little bit on this page, and it could certainly be expanded. That said we don't yet fully understand the implications, or know yet ourselves the full answer to that question. As we learn more we'll add to this page.

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Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:43 pm
by CBenson
Do we want to add a statement that junction boxes do not currently effect routing and finalize this page for publication? Or do we want to shelve publication until R5 beta editors actually can use junction boxes to solve routing issues?

Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:58 pm
by Fredo-p
I say hold off. If it's not in production, and hasn't been fully tested by editors, then hold off. At least have the wiki saved on standby until it hits production. Then, the moment it does, we can say, before anyone asks, "Please look at this to understand what JBs are and how to use them".

Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:14 pm
by alexs001
The size of a Junction box cannot exceed 1 kilometer.
Is this a linear distance limit for one side, or corner-to-corner? Or is it an area limitation? ie 1 sq.km

Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:23 pm
by CBenson
I don't know. At this point all I know is that if I put a junction box around an entire interstate interchange an error is returned that says: "The size of the highlighted Junction box cannot exceed 1 kilometer." I guess we could do some tests and try to figure out what that means.

Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:21 am
by Fredo-p
So, we are guessing about JBs and haven't had any clear cut instructions from Waze? Can the champs get a hold of them and ask them to provide an answer as to how JBs are to be used, its limitations, and what other effects it has on other segmetns?

Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:12 am
by CBenson
We have and continue to do so. All the answers we have received are included on the draft page.

Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:52 am
by Fredo-p
Oh, I didn't see the draft page. Belay my last.

Re: [New Page] Junction Box

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:36 pm
by CBenson
Wait, are you telling me that only person to answer my query about whether to publish the page or not didn't actually see the page?