PesachZ wrote:

KB_Steveo wrote:We need to add an example/caveat to the Roundabout road type guide. Where it says:

If a ramp connects to the Roundabout, use the road type to which that ramp connects.

We need to add a statement saying "If this rule results in a scenario where a roundabout would become a freeway, use the next highest road type connecting to the roundabout. Example

Something would/should be added to the table then as well.

Since we use the second highest connected type to determine the roundabout type, the only way it would become a Fwy is if there are two Fwys connected. In that case the RA should be set as ramp, not a lower type, to prevent possible pruning from connection routes between the two Fwys.

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First, BDP already prevents the freeway to freeway routing.

Second, What you're saying is also contradictory to the guidance given in the JSG/Interchange guide instructing to restrict ramp to ramp traffic at a diamond interchanges. It is also counter-intuitive of the existing statement "If a ramp connects to the Roundabout, use the road type to which that ramp connects" already in the page.

Third, that would look goofy in the app, since you'd have a really thin roundabout in the middle of thicker mH and MH segments. (or 2 MH segments, as would be the case at the roundabout just east of the one in my PL, based on what you just said.)

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Per team comments, I moved the recently added material to its own thread here.

PesachZ wrote:And then have a message telling them to see their local wiki for local guidance, and to see the best practices for their country and how their community leadership has decided to implement the roles in their country based on this behaviour.

Maybe we could add a collapsed table with links to the countries that have specific guidelines so those users who want to dive in deeper to get guidance would see their country. Maybe we can build a template to help make managing these link tables look consistent.

PesachZ wrote:I've employed a navbox for this on some other pages.

A navbox format would probably work. I'm thinking we crate the template to be somewhat self-checking for the Wiki editor. Maybe include in the template all the parameter names that match the country names and each editor adds the appropriate page link in that country's wiki to one of the named parameters. If an editor adds a country name that is not in the template list it throws an error. Then we can presort the list in the navbox and display only the countries that the editor added a link for that parameter.

KB_Steveo wrote:We need to add an example/caveat to the Roundabout road type guide. Where it says:

If a ramp connects to the Roundabout, use the road type to which that ramp connects.

We need to add a statement saying "If this rule results in a scenario where a roundabout would become a freeway, use the next highest road type connecting to the roundabout. Example

Something would/should be added to the table then as well.

Since we use the second highest connected type to determine the roundabout type, the only way it would become a Fwy is if there are two Fwys connected. In that case the RA should be set as ramp, not a lower type, to prevent possible pruning from connection routes between the two Fwys.

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KB_Steveo wrote:

PesachZ wrote:

KB_Steveo wrote:We need to add an example/caveat to the Roundabout road type guide. Where it says: We need to add a statement saying "If this rule results in a scenario where a roundabout would become a freeway, use the next highest road type connecting to the roundabout. Example

Something would/should be added to the table then as well.

Since we use the second highest connected type to determine the roundabout type, the only way it would become a Fwy is if there are two Fwys connected. In that case the RA should be set as ramp, not a lower type, to prevent possible pruning from connection routes between the two Fwys.

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First, BDP already prevents the freeway to freeway routing.

Second, What you're saying is also contradictory to the guidance given in the JSG/Interchange guide instructing to restrict ramp to ramp traffic at a diamond interchanges. It is also counter-intuitive of the existing statement "If a ramp connects to the Roundabout, use the road type to which that ramp connects" already in the page.

Third, that would look goofy in the app, since you'd have a really thin roundabout in the middle of thicker mH and MH segments. (or 2 MH segments, as would be the case at the roundabout just east of the one in my PL, based on what you just said.)

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My suggestion was not based on the specific RA in your PL, rather a general statement which could happen at a RA. Since your suggestion would change the rule for all RAs.

Now let's examine,
First, BDP would not necessarily always prevent the route, that would depend on the local setup.

Second, two things here, first of all we are not talking about a diamond interchange, second that very guidance about restricting ramp to ramp at a diamond interchange even when it's legal is also under review to be changed.
About it being counter-intuitive, agreed, that's why a specific clause and example in the table are needed. Which I imagine is what started this discussion. This situation requires special handling not yet covered in the page, what method we choose to use should not negatively impact routing.

Third, I'm not very concerned that it may appear goofy to some because the segment is thinner, I'm much more concerned about proper routing. Remember at least two of the connected segments are also ramp, so I could reverse the goofy argument saying that they would look goofy connecting to a thicker MH RA.

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qwaletee wrote:I just noticed that this is still getting discussed in a very old poll topic. We should close it and start a new one.

Good point, i hadn't even noticed

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top_gun_de wrote:Categorisation is imho an issue for country Wikis. I suggest to remove this from the global page altogether and just state that special care must be taken with road types in a roundabout and to consult the local Wiki.


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How would you feel if we don't give guidance for what type to use but instead factually list what the minimum row types would be required to ensure that no additional routing pruning penalties are given based on the road types in the roundabout. We can also factually list the benefits and disadvantages of using a ramp types.

This way the global page just list the actual behaviors, and does not give guidance. A reader can understand how road types may affect routing.

And then have a message telling them to see their local wiki for local guidance, and to see the best practices for their country and how their community leadership has decided to implement the roles in their country based on this behaviour.
We could then pricier links to all the country surviving local pages which exist on the topic.

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kentsmith9 wrote:

PesachZ wrote:And then have a message telling them to see their local wiki for local guidance, and to see the best practices for their country and how their community leadership has decided to implement the roles in their country based on this behaviour.

Maybe we could add a collapsed table with links to the countries that have specific guidelines so those users who want to dive in deeper to get guidance would see their country. Maybe we can build a template to help make managing these link tables look consistent.

I've employed a navbox for this on some other pages.