Get a sneak peek at whats next for Permanent Hazards on our April 7th Office Hours!
Post by kentsmith9
CBenson wrote:My understanding is the description of hard turns was written when it was simply a very high penalty and waze would route through a hard restriction if that was the only way to get to the closest segment to the destination. How do we edit the page to make it clear that no longer happens?
I missed that we had absolute confirmation this was the case. Assuming that's true, I believe we can find words to convey that. I can take a shot if you confirm.
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
Posts: 5765
Has thanked: 816 times
Been thanked: 1156 times
Send a message

Post by kentsmith9
I missed that detail in the OP when catching up on the thread.

I'll take a shot at some adjusted wording once I get some free time (unless someone beats me to it).
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
Posts: 5765
Has thanked: 816 times
Been thanked: 1156 times
Send a message


Post by PesachZ
CBenson wrote:So at this point it would seem that no segment should have all turns to access it restricted. It would seem that if no vehicles can access a segment then it shouldn't be mapped as a driveable segment. If we say this on the page we could then point out that a result of erroneously restricting all turns onto a segment is that it will not be used as the destination for any routes. Does this sound correct to everybody?
What does waze do when the destination is closest to a connected segment with all inbound turns restricted. Will it route to the junction, the next closest segment, something completely random, or fail entirely?

Sent from Android using Tapatalk
PesachZ
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
Posts: 4516
Has thanked: 1365 times
Been thanked: 1572 times
Send a message
https://s.waze.tools/gc.pngNYhttps://j.mp/1xPiWC8https://j.mp/1C9mUY2
Formal Mentoring, Wiki
Useful Wiki pages
URs & etiquette | WME | Editing Manual | Quick-Start Guide | Best Map Editing Practices | Junctions
State specific Wiki | Forum

Post by PesachZ
deeploz wrote:
WonderLerm wrote: "Restricted turns should be 100% restricted. Under no circumstance should we route through them. Private roads, referenced in the discussions, are a completely different thing. There we do have a penalty."
CBenson wrote:But the point of this change is that the hard turn restriction isn't really a penalty anymore.
So if it is not a penalty matter, what is is exactly ?

Can we say that the routing engine consider a hard turn restriction as the same "level of impossible routing" than if the destination segment was disconnected (i.e. no segment connectivity) ?

Because we know, for sure, that Waze has never proposed a route through the void between two disconnected segment. But (even if never experienced it personally) some have reported that, in certain circumstances, a route was proposed through a hard turn restriction. Or is it only an editor's legend ?
It used to be a penalty, but has been changed now and according to Karen is now impossible.

Sent from Android using Tapatalk
PesachZ
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
Posts: 4516
Has thanked: 1365 times
Been thanked: 1572 times
Send a message
https://s.waze.tools/gc.pngNYhttps://j.mp/1xPiWC8https://j.mp/1C9mUY2
Formal Mentoring, Wiki
Useful Wiki pages
URs & etiquette | WME | Editing Manual | Quick-Start Guide | Best Map Editing Practices | Junctions
State specific Wiki | Forum

Post by PesachZ
What it definitely means is that if such a turn is routed through, it is definitely a bug. As opposed to penalized turns where it may be WAD.

Sent from Android using Tapatalk
PesachZ
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
Posts: 4516
Has thanked: 1365 times
Been thanked: 1572 times
Send a message
https://s.waze.tools/gc.pngNYhttps://j.mp/1xPiWC8https://j.mp/1C9mUY2
Formal Mentoring, Wiki
Useful Wiki pages
URs & etiquette | WME | Editing Manual | Quick-Start Guide | Best Map Editing Practices | Junctions
State specific Wiki | Forum

Post by qwaletee
Correct, soft turns can still be overridden.

On the "nearest routable segment" - do we have any documented confirmation, either from a test bed or from dev?

Also, to complete the loop, this topic is now intertwined with the following one: viewtopic.php?f=276&t=144250&view=unread#p1270367
qwaletee
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
Posts: 2939
Has thanked: 188 times
Been thanked: 958 times
Send a message
US Champ / Country Manager | State Manager NY, NJ, PA, CT, MA, RI, VT, ME, NH | Northeast ARC | Mentor | Responding to Map Issues

Post by qwaletee
I had a segment time restriction that somebody had messed up and placed. Ramapo, I think. It was the main access road to a development, no other way in or out. Waze routed to a somewhat random spot on a nearby road. Wasn't to the closest junction or I think even to the closest segment on the route to the junction, but it was RELATIVELY close to the destination.

Not 100% same circumstances, but quite similar.
qwaletee
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
Posts: 2939
Has thanked: 188 times
Been thanked: 958 times
Send a message
US Champ / Country Manager | State Manager NY, NJ, PA, CT, MA, RI, VT, ME, NH | Northeast ARC | Mentor | Responding to Map Issues

Post by qwaletee
I'm fine with the changes. I suspect we could be more direct and describe it something like this:

Waze always calculates several possible routes, and selects the best one, usually by how long each route takes to complete. Waze is also aware that certain possible routing decisions (certains streets or turns or other maneuvers) may be undesirable. It will penalize such routing decisions by adding a certain amount of time to the route to compensate for the unwanted behavior. If the undesirable route, by adding this penalty time, becomes longer than the unpenalized route, then the longer-unpenalized route will be favored over the shorter-penalized route.

A single route can have multiple penalties - for example, routing through a parking lot at the beginning of the route, and then later routing off a highway and back on (exit and immediately reenter), perhaps repeating this several times. Each of these undesirable behaviors will add time to the route, and the cumulative time of the actual route and all/ its total penalties is the total route cost for calculating the preferred route for a trip.

Note that the complete list of penalized maneuvers, and the amount of penalty for each, is proprietary to Waze, and much of it has not been revealed publicly. Also note that the times displayed to end users for both route selection and route progress do not include the penalty times; the displayed route time is always the actual trip length calculation without penalties.
qwaletee
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
Posts: 2939
Has thanked: 188 times
Been thanked: 958 times
Send a message
US Champ / Country Manager | State Manager NY, NJ, PA, CT, MA, RI, VT, ME, NH | Northeast ARC | Mentor | Responding to Map Issues

Post by top_gun_de
Well, the 100%-confirmation-statement uses the standard escape-word "should", does that mean there might still be conditions where the accuracy of the statement is restricted :?
top_gun_de
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
Posts: 9483
Has thanked: 1174 times
Been thanked: 2920 times
Send a message