New Page - Junction Style Guide

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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:57 am

If you have any examples to add, go ahead and add them and just post here so we can all see :)

For the "gradually curve" statement, what if we just add "if needed" at the end of the sentence? For some situations I don't bother either, but for some it looks better.

Maybe one day I can get back to my list here at my desk of things I want to add (like intersections for two one-way roads). Of course it helps to actually BE at my desk, which I haven't been able to do much lately. In NY and NJ at the start of the month, in Nashville last week, and just got home from Louisville KY a few hours ago.

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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:51 pm

As long as both options coming out of a segment are the same road type as each other and all three segments have different names, you will get an instruction.

Although I set the wiki examples up to show all Freeway segments used, in practice I typically use ramps at the split because it makes them easy to find while editing.

I probably should cover both variations and the pros and cons of each in the wiki. Let me mull it over and I'll see if I can get it done today before I leave in the morning for a trip.
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:25 pm

Okay, it is Friday and I am going to be out of the office next week, so who needs work? :lol:

I've updated the sections for Exits, Splits, and Wayfinders. I'm sure it is rough and I probably have a few dumb typos, so give it a read through.

By the way, I don't think we have been consistent with nomenclature for these wayfinders... do we want to use:
Wayfinder
Way-Finder
Pathfinder
Path-Finder
Guide Sign

I include Guide sign there because although we haven't really used that one here, I think that is the best match to the MUCD in the US, although Guide Signs cover just about every BGS ;). (BTW, here is the MUCD page for a split)
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:47 pm

Not yet, I need to find a solid day to work on documenting junctions with split roads in general.

So no one has any thoughts on wayfinder/pathfinder/guide sign terminology?
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:14 pm

I just re-read through everything in both threads about the proposal to change naming standards.

The initial intent was to add field separators to all ramps (no matter their purpose).

As an example of how to handle different situations, pathfinders came up. Some editors had been using them already, others hadn't. So what started as "how do we apply this convention to pathfinders?" became "what are pathfinders and should we even have pathfinders?"

It seems most commenters had no issue with pathfinders, but we could never get consensus on the field separators. Some examples I found quickly:

In the case that this does not pass, I feel that pathfinders can be added without fanfare, since they are by design not to be used in every case anyway.

the pathfinder part of it (if I'm understanding what that is) has been implemented, and no vote is necessary.


Now it is true that pathfinders weren't decided upon officially (but how many things have been? ;) ).

AndyPoms wrote:I have no problem using pathfinders at splits without an exit number, but if there is an exit number in play, there shouldn't be a pathfinder there at all.

Getting into semantics here, but in that case I would say that if there are no exit numbers, then we aren't dealing with pathfinders at all. We are dealing with a basic split. A pathfinder is a method to get a basic exit to operate as if it was a split. So we can only have pathfinders if we have an exit.

I'll agree that they are not needed in all cases. But if they are used, we should have a standard. And yes, a local should know the intricacies of their normal commute. But what if there is an accident (or Space Shuttle) on their normal route and they are sent on an alternate route they are not familiar with? Then these advance notifications can be very helpful. I know I have personally handled URs explicitly asking for this type of notification, so this isn't just theoretical.

Sorry for the long post!
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:20 pm

CBenson wrote:I have one thought on the Wayfinder Segments section.
When generating a Wayfinder instruction at an exit by using freeway/highway segments, it seems to me that there is no need to name the stub freeway/highway segment that connects to the ramp. I would suggest naming the ramp segment with the exit information and leaving the exit stub unnamed. That way the exit name won't show on the client map.

That is a good point. More importantly it would prevent the stub and the actual exit from being combined by deleting a node or caught together in a select entire street. I added it to my every growing post-it ;)
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:15 pm

I was just paying attention to this recently actually. As far as I can tell, ramps cause "Exit Right" and "Keep Left" (well "stay to the left", but "Keep" is simpler to use for discussions). Other roads types such as Freeway provide "Keep" for both directions.

I assume this is reversed for LHD countries.

And the "Keep Left" is used regardless of the name of the ramp including "Exit" or not.
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:44 pm

dmcconachie wrote:I have a Minor Highway to Street near me that gives an "Exit left" prompt. Drives me mad every time I hear it!

Okay, yes, that is true too. I used to have that same issue near me with a right hand turn. This is where I learned my skills in setting road angles to close to 90 to force a "turn" instruction.

So in your experience being across the pond, what would you get for the same situation but to the right instead of the left?
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:15 pm

CBenson wrote:Ok, then: When bearing left on a ramp (that is not a "best continuation") you always get a "Keep/Stay left" instruction. But when bearing right on a ramp the type of segment you are leaving matters - when leaving a highway/freeway segment you get an "Exit right" instruction but when leaving a ramp you get a "Keep/Stay right" instruction.
Thus, the statement in the wiki under Wayfinder Segments - Ramps that says
Note: will provide Exit left/right
should say "Note: will provide Exit right/Stay left."
And the statement under Ramp to Ramp Splits - Example that says:
If you are headed to "DestinationLeft", navigation would tell you:

Exit Right to Destination Left
Exit Left to Destination Left
should say:
If you are headed to "DestinationLeft", navigation would tell you:
Exit Right to Destination Left
Stay Left to Destination Left.

As long as you can confirm I am not crazy and that is accurate, I'll make the changes :) Typing that up recently in the wiki is what made me try to pay more attention in the car.
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:20 am

CBenson wrote:
WeeeZer14 wrote:As long as you can confirm I am not crazy and that is accurate, I'll make the changes :) Typing that up recently in the wiki is what made me try to pay more attention in the car.

That is how all the examples I can find work, so I think I confirm that is accurate. Whether you're crazy or not, I don't yet have conclusive evidence.

Please let me know if you reach a conclusion on my sanity. The voices in my head are curious. :lol:

In the mean time I've started to update the wiki. A question though... for a split with a ramp leading to two more ramps, are we sure the right hand path given an "exit" and not a "keep"? I don't have any contrary evidence, I just want to make sure.
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