New Page - Junction Style Guide

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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:32 am

Okay, I think I caught all the places where we needed to make a distinction for right-hand vs left-hand drive countries and the keep/exit differences.
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:36 pm

ncc1701v wrote:This is an important point. Here's one for the other side of the argument: suppose I see a section of road marked orange. I start in and there are no delays so I figure Waze is showing me old information ... until suddenly I have to slam on the brakes for stopped traffic. It would be safer for me if I had fine-grained information.

What could be finer grained than a user reporting a traffic jam? It is right where the traffic is, right? But how many times have you been driving and you hit traffic well before the pin for the jam? Or you pass the pin at full speed but then you find the ripple of traffic a mile ahead? If you guys haven't, this has happened to me many, many, many times.

My point is that the granularity may give a false sense of accuracy that doesn't really exist. It is accuracy vs precision. We don't need to be more accurate than we are precise.

Now that said, a 5 mile chunk of road may be reasonable. A mile I wouldn't be comfortable with. Less than a mile, no way.
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:43 pm

CBenson wrote:I'm wondering about the statement under Geometry:
Approximately 0 degree departure angle = no navigation instruction


I don't think small angles necessarily give no navigation instruction. For instance, I see many ramps that split between a straight section and section that bears off to the right. When I go straight I get an instruction usually a "stay left" instruction. Here is an example where the ramp splits going straight and bearing off to the left. Going straight here you receive a "stay right" instruction.

It seems to me that as most zero deflection roads have the same name and type as the entering segment, most don't get an instruction. However, if they don't have better name match or type match than another segment that has a deflection less than 45 degrees than I believe that they do get an instruction (typically a "keep/stay" instruction, but could be an "exit" instruction).

You do bring up a good point. If we have matching types and non-matching names, we may get instructions. I do still want to make the point about "close to zero" being important, but I guess it needs a disclaimer about special cases (most of which are probably discussed elsewhere). Let me mull it over a bit.
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:14 pm

I added this paragraph under the "table" of angles and their results:

NOTE: There are exceptions to these rules since geometry is not the only factor which determines instructions. See later sections for how Segment Naming and Type can impact instructions.


As you've drawn your example, the continuation onto A St and B St are such that I would expect NO prompt to go on A St (since name and type matches and the angle would not produce a "turn" prompt) and you should get a "keep/stay" for B St.

How to handle it depends on the real world lane stripping and signage to me. If the real world obvious continuation is onto B St, then I'd make A St come off at 90 degrees to force an instruction. Not sure that we could get a keep/stay right without hacks. If A St is the obvious continuation, we may be fine as is.
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Tue May 07, 2013 2:08 pm

Just a note that I DO want to add Tim's method to the page. I think it is an elegant kludge and it is in use in the UK already.

As long as what we do remains backwards compatible with whatever Waze comes up with for junctions in the future I think we are okay. We have millions of users using Waze today, so we have to do something for them. And I think any form of the wayfinder technique is simple and low impact enough especially since it isn't being done on EVERY junction.
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:40 am

kentsmith9 wrote:We are about 9 months behind documenting the Bow Tie intersection. I created an entry for it in the JSG if someone wanted to tackle it.

I just posted a first draft of content. Some of the content is very general and may need some concrete numbers. What I've said is basically my personal rules, so let me know if someone has a better system.
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Re: New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:12 am

kentsmith9 wrote:I think it generally covers it although I used it when dual carriageways cross each other as well. I think that would be easy enough to add in without requiring an image.

Maybe we should also add an image of the H-intersection so it is clear what this intersection looked like before the bow tie. For that matter would it make more sense to show the intersecting dual carriageways image.

I agree with your suggestions. Probably won't be until Monday/Tuesday when I get a chance though.
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New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby Wolfeye » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:32 pm

An idea about how far from the junction the geometry node should be set when making a 20-30° or 90° angle. My suggestion is to make this part of the segment equal to the size of the turn restriction arrow when fully zoomed in.


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New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby Wolfeye » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:14 pm

daknife wrote:Got another Junction style for you to play with, and it's a doozy, The Thru-turn. Driving wise they supposedly are very effective by eliminating left hand turns at the targeted intersection, by moving them away from said intersection. Utah just opened it's second such interchange this last week, and it was fun to map in, now the AM's and I have to watch it and try to adjust and tweak once the new design goes live. And I expect many more to appear as the first one was determined to be a success.

Here is the first one, (I highlighted one segment of each of the three thru-turns in that system).

Here is The new one This one is still kind of sketchy on my layout, I based the layout on the Driver Information Map provided by UDOT (Warning the link points to a PDF.)

What's wrong with roundabouts in your country? (Yes I'm from Sweden where we have them all over)
Anyhow. Isn't the junction (through turn or whatever you want to call that "thing") drawn a bit too complex? I know that some people want every lane to be drawn so they don't need to look at the road (maybe they have curtains too?). But for all other junctions we have decided that simplicity comes first. So isn't there a more simple way to reconstruct that junction in WME?
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New Page - Junction Style Guide

Postby Wolfeye » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:08 pm

Ok I can understand that you have problems with unqualified drivers and that is, of course, up to you to figure out how to best solve that problem with help from local authorities.
But the more important question was, how to best reproduce that "phenomenon" in WME?
Because reproducing it with that kind of complicity will probably make people start to draw every single lane in simple 4-stop junctions too.
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