Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:15 pm

My example of the T above (which works as you'd expect) was in reply to CBenson:
CBenson wrote:I'm away from the computer at the moment. But, I'm I pretty sure I can find many examples of segments that T into a one-way road where all turn restrictions are hard where you get a turn left instruction. As I mentioned, anytime you T into a split road you have this circumstance and normally you get the left turn instruction.

Just giving the example he didn't have time to find. And I agree a turn left is desired here.

P.S. - Previously this intersection had that junction at less than 45 degrees and NO turn left instruction was given -- again, as expected and desired given the angles.
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Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:04 pm

Here is a T example that I know gives a turn left...

Livemap route

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Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:45 pm

And this is probably why we've noticed differing experiences for collector/distributor cloverleaf interchanges with a where the on and off lobes/leaves connect at one point. Headed to the off ramp you WILL get an exit right if the restriction to head back to the interstate is SOFT restricted. No instruction if it is hard restricted.
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Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby Timbones » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:37 am

Good job!

I've updated the link from my colour highlights script to point to the Wiki thread. :)
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Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby Timbones » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:38 am

Is this ready to go into the Wiki yet?
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Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby ncc1701v » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:51 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:
ncc1701v wrote:There's been discussion recently about how if a junction has soft turns, there is more than one possible continuation, and you are more likely to get an instruction for that junction. Should that be mentioned?

Are you talking about this thread? If so I missed the element you mentioned here. If another thread, can you point it out?

Whatever that thread is, I'm not allowed to read its forum. And I can't find the thread I'm looking for. But here's the idea: when Waze arrives at a junction, if there is only one valid continuation it might not give you an instruction, even if it's a significant turn. If one of the reds is soft instead of hard, Waze says that _might_ be valid, so it is more likely to give an instruction. The gist is that making turns hard can change the client's instructions.
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Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby ncc1701v » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:59 pm

There's been discussion recently about how if a junction has soft turns, there is more than one possible continuation, and you are more likely to get an instruction for that junction. Should that be mentioned?
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Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby mapcat » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:56 am

kentsmith9 wrote:
mapcat wrote:Waze does not support time based restrictions, so if it's not allowed for a specific time frame, then it's not allowed.

I recall many threads discussing this, but I don't recall a final recommendation. I think this thread could spawn that decision here or in a related thread. If it was decided, I missed it in my search and I don't recall it getting into the Wiki yet. We should note that some restrictions are for commute traffic flow control and some are for other reasons. I know one road in my area is no right turn during late hours when most people are not around. Otherwise the majority of traffic is allowed. Shall we play it safe and say No turn if "ever" restricted even if only for 3 hours on a weekday?

I recall reading some opinions on this that seemed to indicate a decision had been made, but maybe it was just wishful thinking.

1. I thought Reverse Connectivity was a thing of the past that we did not have to contend with any more based on what I thought I was reading in the Known Issues list. Maybe I am wrong and we need a whole section on Map Troubleshooting with that in there. (Next topic. ;) )

No, it can still happen. Check the script thread in the champs forum. Pretty sure Brian pointed out how.

2. Your description of what W does on its own is a little different than what I thought Alan had previously told me. I also realize I did not include my understanding of that function. So based on what you wrote and what I thought, here is what I propose we add to the General Section with what we have already on QW:
  • Pressing only the W shortcut (without the Q first) only turns any soft or hard restrictions to hard enabled turns. It does not convert any soft enabled turns to hard enabled turns. Also, with previously drawn "one-way" or "no entrance" roads using the older Cartouche map editor, there may be soft or hard enabled turns for the opposite direction of travel that are not visible on the map, but can effect traffic routing. Therefore it is best to always press Q just before using W on all segments where you are using the W shortcut. The Waze development team is considering adding this functionality to the operation of the W key to simplify matters (date TBD).

Frankly the Reverse Connectivity issue really seems like a bug in the navigation router that should be fixable. It appears to be causing very significant problems and effort to fix at the map level with millions of junctions where the routing code could do a better job at understanding what is currently "active" for that segment or junction like we see on the map. Maybe I still don't fully understand the problem in the first place. :geek:

Someone else will correct this if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that W alone only enables turns. Something wrong has to be disabled first. The problem of reverse connectivity goes back to the penalties. No left turn is a penalty and so is one-way. If Waze is considering routing you the wrong way down a one-way street, the one-way penalty might not be enough in every case.
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Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby mapcat » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:43 pm

Great idea for a topic.

Just a few things at first glance:

The routing engine can override anything since it's all based on penalties. Maybe I misunderstand what you wrote.

Waze does not support time based restrictions, so if it's not allowed for a specific time frame, then it's not allowed.

After creating a junction, first make sure all the one-ways & two-ways are set correctly, and then QW.

Pressing only W (without Q first) does not clear out incorrect allowed turns (including reverse connectivity). It just turns all current soft or hard restrictions off.

Extended tools "allow all turns" sets them all to soft enabled, not hard enabled.
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Re: Documenting Soft and Hard Turns

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:29 am

More...

4. For intersections that currently exist, if they are disassembled and re-added, the segments moved back to the original segment will have soft restricted turns to all other segments. The original segment not moved will have hard restricted turns to the others that were moved unless they were originally soft turns to those segments and then they will be soft restricted.
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