Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jasonh300 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:24 am

daknife wrote:Taking the discussion behind closed doors, with no statement to that effect and leaving me with nothing to point new editors at has caused great frustration. I finally had to get one editor banned for a bit as he simply wasn't responding to any effort to get him to communicate, and he stated that lacking any set wiki instructions, he was just trying to mark all the landmarks the drop-down list let him mark.


Just keep in mind that a statement *was* made that the discussion would be taken behind closed doors...that's how you know about it. That hasn't actually happened yet. As of right now, the discussion has only taken place here aside from a couple of PMs I exchanged with Andy discussing how to handle it.

The process of the Champs discussion shouldn't take very long. Whichever Champs want to put in their 2¢ will do so within a day or two...unless there's some kind of serious disagreement, which I doubt will be the case.

Give AndyPoms a few days to compile everything...that's a pretty big job, and he has a regular full time job to, so it isn't going to happen instantly. But I think the original statement of how long this process is going to take was over-estimated. If Andy can get all the data together, I think we should be able to get this finalized and into the Wiki in a week or so.

Andy, if you need help to speed up the process, just let me know.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jasonh300 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:29 pm

I forgot to post this in this thread. Official word came down regarding Parking Lot landmarks in the NA server:

Hi Jason,

Landmarks do not suppress traffic jams.
We do [have] plans to use this feature, but we didn't try it live yet.


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Re: Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jasonh300 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:16 pm

Timbones wrote:
davipt wrote:Here's a case of mall+plot example

I don't think the parking lot landmark in this example should be touching the Freeway. For one thing there's a huge green area separating the two.


Exactly...it's just bad form. Especially when the N249-2 was so carefully avoided.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jasonh300 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:43 am

jgilbrech wrote:So the gas station landmark only suppresses traffic when it is snapped to the road? In what situations would this be a desirable effect?


Gas station landmarks do not suppress traffic in any way shape or form. This has been confirmed by the developers.

jgilbrech wrote:Also, I don't know who actually runs the "Waze Mapping Support" twitter account but I asked about the parking lot landmark before I came here to look.

"@WazeMapping Does the "parking lot" landmark have any use?"

"Limited use. That landmark was originally intended for public or pay lots, not every mall lot out there."


That twitter account is run by one of the U.S. Waze Champs. The information given was correct, although I think the term "mall" could be misinterpreted. There's no need or use in putting every parking lot for every little business or "strip-mall". It clutters the map.

Of course, if a "mall" as in "major shopping center" is landmarked to the property boundaries, there's no need for an additional parking lot landmark over the parking area.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jgilbrech » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:47 pm

So the gas station landmark only suppresses traffic when it is snapped to the road? In what situations would this be a desirable effect?
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jgilbrech » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:53 pm

Also, I don't know who actually runs the "Waze Mapping Support" twitter account but I asked about the parking lot landmark before I came here to look.

"@WazeMapping Does the "parking lot" landmark have any use?"

"Limited use. That landmark was originally intended for public or pay lots, not every mall lot out there."
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jgilbrech » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:12 am

Thanks for the answers guys. I see that i got confused on the previous page.
suppress traffic != suppress map problems
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby Jpere » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:51 pm

I'm glad Andy directed me to this discussion, as lately I've been very conflicted with the purpose of Landmarks, and a discussion I've been having with a fellow editor in my area shows how important it is that we get this sorted out. We all saw the post on the Waze blog about the number of editors increasing over the last few months so it is important that we figure this out before everyone starts doing their own thing at a bigger scale. This is worsened by the lack of communication from Waze as to what guidelines we can start following.
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Okay, so far I see everyone has different opinions on these changes and this discussion is getting nowhere.

How about we tackle some of the more general issues with landmarks before we start getting lost in the details?

Problem: Should we or should we not add landmarks to the Waze map?
Argument 1: Waze uses POI databases from Bing and other providers when users search for landmarks, making any additions editors make to the map "useless" to the Waze client and the routing algorithms.
Counter-argument 1: Landmarks on the client map server as a reference point to drivers who may be browsing the map or who may have been misguided by Waze directions (I've had this happen to me countless time and it is very frustrating).
Counter-counter-argument 1: Extra work for the editors who should be focused on improved map routing and accuracy instead of having to worry about outdated landmarks, landmarks that are missing, or problems with "X store being on the map, but Y store not being on the map, and they are direct competitors (i.e. CVS vs Walgreens in USA)"
My opinion: No harm is done in adding certain landmarks to the client map. I'm against small, local business (like mom & pop unisex barber, or father & songs general mechanic, etc.), but national chains like Office Depot, Walmart, etc., I think would be fine in being added to the map. I think from a usability perspective this would be a welcomed addition to Wazers. We can manage our areas and see when users are adding the "small businesses" and PM the user about the guidelines we will be adding to the wiki.

I think if we can all agree to this we can then move on to listing the only landmarks that should be on the map. For the sake of this argument, though, let's get this problem out of the way first.

What other arguments for or against are there for including landmarks apart from the ones I listed above? Also, please include your opinion to that problem only so we can get an idea which argument is "winning."
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby Jpere » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:37 pm

mapcat wrote:
CrackedLCD wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:9. Gas stations suppress traffic. That's never been in question.


Do you name gas station landmarks? I've been naming the ones that were put in to suppress traffic, but I think after a certain number of them are drawn it starts to clutter the map too much.

In the USA, we're not supposed to be adding gas station landmarks. They imported a special uneditable layer for those.


Do you have a link where they make that announcement?
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby Jpere » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:38 am

mapcat wrote:Waze doesn't answer a lot of questions.

[...]

I don't know if having two sets of gas station landmarks will affect anything at all. "I really don't think" and "From what I've seen" is all you can offer here, because you don't know. You should, and I should, but we don't. Nobody knows. The only people with the capability to know don't talk. Maybe they don't know either.


Well this is extremely frustrating and defeats the entire purpose of this thread. If we don't have something solid to go on, then for all we know if are making matters worse.

Look, I know you and all the other super editors are not Waze employees nor have a Waze employee on speed dial, but what if you and all other CMs could come together and, in one voice, ask Waze for some guidance. I mean, we volunteer our time to improve our maps and without us Waze would be nothing, so why don't they show us a little bit of respect or concern?

I just don't understand what Waze is doing here. They need some sort of community manager/liason instead of just posting in the forums from time to time and ignoring threads like these.
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