Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Moderator: Unholy

Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:24 pm

antigerme wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:I forgot to post this in this thread. Official word came down regarding Parking Lot landmarks in the NA server:

Hi Jason,

Landmarks do not suppress traffic jams.
We do [have] plans to use this feature, but we didn't try it live yet.


Ori


Myth busted!

We can break other myths? :lol:

The information is for the whole infrastructure, NA and ROTW.


HOWEVER,
Unholy wrote:Gas stations and parking lots landmarks do suppress the creation of map problems
So, the guideline not to snap them to a road is a valid one.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby bgodette » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:27 am

AndyPoms wrote:
antigerme wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:I forgot to post this in this thread. Official word came down regarding Parking Lot landmarks in the NA server:


Myth busted!

We can break other myths? :lol:

The information is for the whole infrastructure, NA and ROTW.


HOWEVER,
Unholy wrote:Gas stations and parking lots landmarks do suppress the creation of map problems
So, the guideline not to snap them to a road is a valid one.
Well this is somewhat annoying as it means PLot segments are needed to prevent pollution from gas stations, convenience stores, coffee shops, and drive thrus.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby davipt » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:43 pm

paulwelch23 wrote:If there's a strip mall with several shops along a highway, what should be mapped? Only the parking lot to suppress a jam? The shopping center in general, also? Individual shops? I've seen it done a number of ways, but which is the best?


I usually create one landmark for the mall building and a landmark around it for the open-air parking lot, and give the same name to both. The parking lot landmark is irrelevant for the traffic jam according to waze and several tests - only parking lot roads do suppress traffic. Both landmarks will be seen as one, as the colour is the same, but I'd rather have two than only one for the parking lot. I'll never create individual shops, unless they are quite big ones in a very very large mall place, and even then only the ones that are quite big.

If there is no open-air parking, I only create the mall, example.
Sometimes even if the parking is open, but smaller than the mall, I also avoid the parking lot landmark. example
Here's a case of mall+plot example
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby Wolfeye » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:13 pm

AndyPoms wrote:HOWEVER,
Unholy wrote:Gas stations and parking lots landmarks do suppress the creation of map problems
So, the guideline not to snap them to a road is a valid one.


What kind of map problems are you talking about?
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Re: Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby Timbones » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:56 pm

davipt wrote:Here's a case of mall+plot example

I don't think the parking lot landmark in this example should be touching the Freeway. For one thing there's a huge green area separating the two.

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Re: Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jasonh300 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:16 pm

Timbones wrote:
davipt wrote:Here's a case of mall+plot example

I don't think the parking lot landmark in this example should be touching the Freeway. For one thing there's a huge green area separating the two.


Exactly...it's just bad form. Especially when the N249-2 was so carefully avoided.
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Re: Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby davipt » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:42 pm

jasonh300 wrote:
Timbones wrote:
davipt wrote:Here's a case of mall+plot example

I don't think the parking lot landmark in this example should be touching the Freeway. For one thing there's a huge green area separating the two.


Exactly...it's just bad form. Especially when the N249-2 was so carefully avoided.


It's a question of who owns the land. Next to the freeway (north side) the green area (a small hill, the freeway is some 10m higher than the street of the mall) belongs to the shopping map - meaning from the freeway one can only see the mall -, but the area between the mall and the N249-2 to the left is some other industry I can't recall to take note when I pass by, and hence it should have another landmark between the N249-2 and the mall's parking lot. If the green area would be some kind of public green park it would then be a separate landmark.

In simpler words, I tend to draw landmarks with the satellite layer disabled, so it looks nice on the client without affecting the real world. And hence why I always snap to the streets unless the landmark is a well known design potentially identifiable on the client.
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby Timbones » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:06 am

I don't see how ownership is relevant. Waze is for drivers, and parking lot landmarks should denote the tarmac on which they can park. There's no value including any other land.

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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby davipt » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 am

Timbones wrote:I don't see how ownership is relevant. Waze is for drivers, and parking lot landmarks should denote the tarmac on which they can park. There's no value including any other land.


At the current state on the client, landmarks are useless except for conveying some visual messages on the client to help the user identify areas on the map (except gas stations search obviously). As there are only three relevant colors AFAICS, it's only relevant to draw water bodies, green lands and others stuff with meaningful names or known designs, independently of the landmark type. Hence the discussion if a mall should have one landmark type mall, one type parking, or two separate ones. In the end it's irrelevant for me, as I refuse to write "mall name" and "mall name parking" as it would pollute the map with labels and hence one or two landmarks will be seen the same on the client. The parking information is clearly identified by the main street segments to enter and leave the park or the building in case of inside parking, not by the landmark.

Also, these kind of remarks reminds me of a common mistake (IMHO) I see a lot and struggle to educate my editors: Waze is meant to help navigating with the simples possible map segment grid (no roundabouts Y, no parallel streets, no junction trees, etc.) and, to keep in context with this thread, landmark visual cues. Waze is *not* to draw what is seen on the satellite images.

So, again, albeit I understand your (plural) points and have other cases where your comments are justifiable, in this particular case it is not, and that's why I'm picking it as an example of promoting simple visual messages on the client instead of satellite correctness: the whole shopping mall area, including the buildings and the parking lot, goes up to the freeway. On that green area there's even big billboards promoting the shopping mall. It's irrelevant if the green is a parking or not, because the park is denoted by the segments. On the other hand the area on the left side does not belong to that mall, hence why it doesn't snap there.

If I were to draw only the limits of the tarmac, the client would show an empty space up to the freeway, which for me looks ugly as hell.

And to conclude, personally I do prefer to fix up the segments around, lock when justifiable, and snap the landmarks to each node of the segment, to avoid any gaps in between. It looks much nicer and efficient on the client. As I stated before, some kind of edits should be done with the satellite layer turned off and/or by looking at the client at the same time as the editing. What is seen on the client is the only thing that matters!
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Re: Wiki page suggestion: Landmarks

Postby jgilbrech » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:47 pm

So the gas station landmark only suppresses traffic when it is snapped to the road? In what situations would this be a desirable effect?
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