Road Naming (USA)

Moderator: Unholy

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby vectorspace » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:04 am

I agree. Forget the permalinks. Break it down by up ute and state in a list. I have converted much of NM and am doing others nearby on the side as I edit other things. I am not worried about too much organization, but there should be a review sweep of routes at some point.
vectorspace
vectorspace
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:05 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 418 times

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:50 am

I have been doing northern CA focusing on the exit numbers for ramps and renaming the freeway segments as I go along. This a much bigger state than I realized with lots of freeways and highways. :shock:
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 4949
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1201 times
Been thanked: 1447 times

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby skbun » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:49 pm

Big steps made on functional classification and renaming in the state of Washington. Most renaming there is complete for what I'd like to say is a good first pass, so whenever Waze is ready to add short name support for shields... (I think the style used is pretty close to what we 'want' nationwide' to make shields come up the way we'd like.)

Please see viewtopic.php?f=201&t=55699 for the full details.
Image

AM in SW Shasta, NW Tehama, Central Trinity Counties, CA; Mt Rainier Nat'l Park, WA
skbun
 
Posts: 424
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 12:27 am
Location: Seattle/Tacoma WA
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby sketch » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:10 pm

I noticed some of the ramp examples are wrong. Don't know how long it's been this way.

Road Naming (USA): Exit ramps and Entrance ramps (on-ramps)

I updated some of the outdated "US Hwy" nomenclature, but there are a few things I'd like to discuss here before making any edits.

---

Entrance ramp formatting

For entrance ramps, use this format: "to [street name] [direction] / [control city]", where applicable. For example,
"to I-10 W / Baton Rouge"
"to Clearview Pkwy N / Mandeville"
"to US-90 Business W"
"to LA-1 Thibodaux / Lockport"


As I understand it, we use a colon to split numbered highways and control cities, like "to I-10 W: Baton Rouge", and "to LA-1: Thibodaux / Lockport", when there isn't already a colon in the name (as in numbered exits, to avoid a "double colon").

If I'm mistaken, then the last point should at least be "to LA-1 / Thibodaux / Lockport".

But "to LA-1: Thibodaux / Lockport" and "to I-10 W: Baton Rouge" make a lot more sense to me. This would also require changing the first line (before the list), for the sake of clarity: "to [numbered highway designation] [direction]: [street name] / [street name] / [control city] / [control city]". This clarifies what to do when multiple street names and/or control cities are given.

---

State routes

A small point, but should we now remove any references to "State Rte xx", changing them to "SR-xx"?

A link to the state-by-state format page would be useful there, as well.

---

Exit naming guidance / insight

This is just something I've noticed in my interstate cleanup over the past few weeks. It'd be a new section, or at least a new bullet point, on the observed signage practices of the AASHTO.

Though most of the interstates in Louisiana were almost totally right already, one thing I noticed rather often was that signs for the same exit are often not identical -- often, control cities or street names will be in a different order on one than they are on the other, and occasionally the same is true of numbered highway shields. Here's what I've noticed:

  • When the exit is signed for two cities, or for two roads which meet at the exit, the cities or roads are listed from left to right.
    • For example,
    • I-49 meets LA-6 at exit 138. The exit serves Many, to the west, and Natchitoches, to the east.
      • When traveling northbound, Many is to the left, and Natchitoches is to the right. The sign lists "Many" first, then "Natchitoches".
      • When traveling southbound, Many is to the right, and Natchitoches is to the left. The sign lists "Natchitoches first, then "Many".
    • Parish Rd 16 and LA-3276 meet at I-49 exit 191. LA-3276 continues to the west, and Parish Rd 16 continues to the east. (The alt names are incorrect at the time of this writing.)
      • When traveling northbound, LA-3276 is to the left, and Parish Rd 16 is to the right. The exit sign shows the LA-3276 shield first, and the Parish Rd 16 shield second.
      • When traveling southbound, Parish Rd 16 is to the left, and LA-3276 is to the right. The exit sign shows the Parish Rd 16 shield first, and the LA-3276 shield second.
    • City Park Ave and Metairie Rd meet at I-10 exit 231A in New Orleans. Metairie Rd continues westward into Metairie and City Park Ave continues eastward toward City Park.
      • Traveling westbound (northward here), Metairie Rd is to the left, and City Park Ave is to the right. The exit sign lists Metairie Rd first, then City Park Ave second.
      • Traveling eastbound (southward here), City Park Ave is to the left, and Metairie Rd is to the right. The exit sign lists City Park Ave first, then Metairie Rd second.
  • When the exit is signed for two roads, one of which is encountered before the other, the first road encountered will be listed first.
    • For example, I-10 W exit 231B serves Florida Blvd and West End Blvd. Though Florida Blvd is to the right and West End Blvd is straight ahead, Florida Blvd is encountered first, before West End Blvd.
      • The exit sign lists Florida Blvd first, then West End Blvd.
    • A similar occurrence is found just to the north, at I-610 E exit 1A, for West End Blvd and Canal Blvd.
    • In a somewhat more extreme or obvious example, I-10 exit 226 serves Clearview Pkwy and the Huey Long Bridge. The Huey is a few miles away; Clearview is at the end of the ramp.
    • Similarly, I-10 W exit 228 serves Causeway Blvd and Mandeville. Mandeville is about 30 miles north, across the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway; Causeway Blvd is right there.
    • A more complex example: the same exit eastbound also serves Bonnabel Blvd. To get to Mandeville, you go north on Causeway; since that ramp is encountered first, both are listed before Bonnabel Blvd, which comes later.

This may be a little pedantic, and it serves little more than an illustrative purpose, but it does explain why we should be careful before naming exits the same way on either sides of the same road.

And I know all my examples are from Louisiana, and that each state is responsible for its own interstate system. But they all follow the same AASHTO guidelines, and I've noticed this in other states as well, especially the first style -- the second is less common, as it naturally only really occurs in metropolitan areas. I've recently swept interstates in Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennessee, noticing the same pattern throughout.

edit Also worth noting:

The left-right rule depends on the geometry of the exit. Nonstandard exit designs will sometimes yield the same ordering from both directions.
  • From I-12 exit 60, Pinnacle Pkwy is a left turn from both sides, and E Brewster Rd is a right turn from both sides.
  • From I-12 exit 83, Pearl River is a left turn from both sides, and Slidell is a right turn for both sides.
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
new orleans based • detroit enthusiast • usa country manager
2013 ford focus titanium hatchback 5mt • performance blue
Image Image
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5632
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1199 times
Been thanked: 1654 times

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby AndyPoms » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:54 pm

Short answers for a VERY long post...

Entrance ramp formatting
The colon ":" is only used after exit numbers as in "Exit ##: US-1 / Anytown / Othertown".

State routes
Not all states have converted. Many are waiting for an official solution (i.e. State Abbreviations).

Exit naming guidance / insight
Match the BGS (Big Green Sign) for the direction you are traveling when you take the ramp.
Image
Waze Champ & Forum Moderator
USA Country Manager
Senior Area Manager: State of Connecticut
Wiki: Editing | Best Practices | FAQ
AndyPoms
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 7056
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:34 pm
Location: Hartford, CT
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby sketch » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:14 am

AndyPoms wrote:Short answers for a VERY long post...

Entrance ramp formatting
The colon ":" is only used after exit numbers as in "Exit ##: US-1 / Anytown / Othertown".

The problem is the way this wiki article was written. The standard originally had no punctuation between shields and road/city names because, before TTS, it saved space and we didn't need the pause. I should know, I'm the original author of that ramp naming guide. When TTS showed up, and the app started looking nicer (v2.0), the standards were quietly changed to use a colon for the first major split (like "to I-10: New Orleans") and additional slashes where additional splits were required, to avoid the double colon, "Exit 220: I-310 S / Boutte / Houma". I fielded a proposal which included the double colon to bring some consistency between onramps and exits, but it wasn't passed (IIRC, we had over 50% approval, but under 60%, and we had just voted to implement a 60% "supermajority" requirement to pass anything like that). I'd made the mistake of editing the guide prematurely, and when it didn't pass, someone went through and changed just about every colon in there to a slash. That's not something that passed either.

State routes
Not all states have converted. Many are waiting for an official solution (i.e. State Abbreviations).

OK. I'll make a note here, then, that we can't overlook this bit of the Wiki once we pass what's being discussed right now -- like we did when the US route standard was implemented (a year and a half ago, but only properly last month).

Exit naming guidance / insight
Match the BGS (Big Green Sign) for the direction you are traveling when you take the ramp.

That's the gist of it, yeah. It's a long-winded explanation of why the signs differ, although all that matters to the editor is that the signs differ.
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
new orleans based • detroit enthusiast • usa country manager
2013 ford focus titanium hatchback 5mt • performance blue
Image Image
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5632
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1199 times
Been thanked: 1654 times

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby skbun » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:17 am

AndyPoms wrote:Short answers for a VERY long post...
Exit naming guidance / insight
Match the BGS (Big Green Sign) for the direction you are traveling when you take the ramp.


An additional comment on this last point:

The easy way to put this into the wiki is 'What the sign says is what you list'. This way it's a simple matter of comparing what's on the road to what's in Waze. I mean, heck, exit 18 on I-405 in Kirkland has a BGS that refers to a state route that hasn't existed since 2010 (SR-908) - and it's only on a sign in the southbound direction, but the sign still has it on there. So, it goes on.

I would though want to put one advisory, exception, etc. to what I just said though, which is that a BGS's content is the stuff in the biggest letters. There are sometimes OTHER things listed on such signs but should NOT be included. Examples I've seen: 'Hospital', 'Toll bridge', 'Scenic road', and so on. In almost all cases, these additions are not in white-on-green letters. That said, they're just extras that make TTS chattier than it needs to be.
Image

AM in SW Shasta, NW Tehama, Central Trinity Counties, CA; Mt Rainier Nat'l Park, WA
skbun
 
Posts: 424
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 12:27 am
Location: Seattle/Tacoma WA
Has thanked: 27 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:43 am

skbun wrote:The easy way to put this into the wiki is 'What the sign says is what you list'. This way it's a simple matter of comparing what's on the road to what's in Waze. I mean, heck, exit 18 on I-405 in Kirkland has a BGS that refers to a state route that hasn't existed since 2010 (SR-908) - and it's only on a sign in the southbound direction, but the sign still has it on there. So, it goes on.
Yea, but think of me driving on that road... I don't know SR-908 hasn't existed since 2010, all I know is that's what the sign says, so that's the exit I need to take...

skbun wrote:I would though want to put one advisory, exception, etc. to what I just said though, which is that a BGS's content is the stuff in the biggest letters. There are sometimes OTHER things listed on such signs but should NOT be included. Examples I've seen: 'Hospital', 'Toll bridge', 'Scenic road', and so on. In almost all cases, these additions are not in white-on-green letters. That said, they're just extras that make TTS chattier than it needs to be.
This makes sense to me... However there are places where the only sign isn't the green one... For example in CT Exit 62 on I-95 only has brown signs - https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hammonasset+state+park&ll=41.290811,-72.575812&spn=0.003087,0.013937&fb=1&gl=us&hq=hammonasset+state+park&hnear=0x89e65311f21151a5:0xcc8e4aa8e97d5999,Hartford,+CT&cid=0,0,5921183026241163144&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.290811,-72.575809&panoid=toe_hjkD2zZ-8bG2aU-U5Q&cbp=11,95.32,,0,-3.19
Image
Waze Champ & Forum Moderator
USA Country Manager
Senior Area Manager: State of Connecticut
Wiki: Editing | Best Practices | FAQ
AndyPoms
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 7056
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:34 pm
Location: Hartford, CT
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:47 am

sketch wrote:
AndyPoms wrote:State routes
Not all states have converted. Many are waiting for an official solution (i.e. State Abbreviations).

OK. I'll make a note here, then, that we can't overlook this bit of the Wiki once we pass what's being discussed right now -- like we did when the US route standard was implemented (a year and a half ago, but only properly last month).
That's why we currently have this list: http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Connecticut?title=Road_naming_by_state. We do need to push Waze on what was discussed at the meetup about State Routes, BUT only after US-## is all working properly - there are still places missing shields (CT & CA were missing the last I heard).
Image
Waze Champ & Forum Moderator
USA Country Manager
Senior Area Manager: State of Connecticut
Wiki: Editing | Best Practices | FAQ
AndyPoms
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 7056
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:34 pm
Location: Hartford, CT
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Re: Road Naming (USA)

Postby sketch » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:50 am

AndyPoms wrote:
skbun wrote:The easy way to put this into the wiki is 'What the sign says is what you list'. This way it's a simple matter of comparing what's on the road to what's in Waze. I mean, heck, exit 18 on I-405 in Kirkland has a BGS that refers to a state route that hasn't existed since 2010 (SR-908) - and it's only on a sign in the southbound direction, but the sign still has it on there. So, it goes on.
Yea, but think of me driving on that road... I don't know SR-908 hasn't existed since 2010, all I know is that's what the sign says, so that's the exit I need to take...

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think you're misunderstanding skbun :lol:

If it goes on the sign, it goes on the segment.

AndyPoms wrote:
skbun wrote:I would though want to put one advisory, exception, etc. to what I just said though, which is that a BGS's content is the stuff in the biggest letters. There are sometimes OTHER things listed on such signs but should NOT be included. Examples I've seen: 'Hospital', 'Toll bridge', 'Scenic road', and so on. In almost all cases, these additions are not in white-on-green letters. That said, they're just extras that make TTS chattier than it needs to be.
This makes sense to me... However there are places where the only sign isn't the green one... For example in CT Exit 62 on I-95 only has brown signs - https://maps.google.com/maps?q=hammonasset+state+park&ll=41.290811,-72.575812&spn=0.003087,0.013937&fb=1&gl=us&hq=hammonasset+state+park&hnear=0x89e65311f21151a5:0xcc8e4aa8e97d5999,Hartford,+CT&cid=0,0,5921183026241163144&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.290811,-72.575809&panoid=toe_hjkD2zZ-8bG2aU-U5Q&cbp=11,95.32,,0,-3.19

Yeah, it's an exception, though. Put all the primary info that's on the exit sign on the segment. Additional brown signs are typically to be disregarded, as are additional green signs, unless they're particularly relevant.
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
new orleans based • detroit enthusiast • usa country manager
2013 ford focus titanium hatchback 5mt • performance blue
Image Image
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5632
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1199 times
Been thanked: 1654 times

PreviousNext

Return to Wiki Updates and Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AlexT_1982