"Same Connections" cause routing issues?

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"Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:16 pm

In The WME Toolbox thread, ncc1701v brought up a question around Same Connections:

OyyoDams wrote:The routing server doesn't like when 2 segments begin and end with same nodes. In this case, you should cut one of these segments with 1 more node. Source: Waze staff.


Here is an example of that condition.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... 07,5974627

1. Can someone confirm they have seen (and still see) routing problems with this type of segment linkage?

If we have confirmed this is still a problem for routing, then we should have this clearly indicated in the Wiki. I am not sure where since most people will not be looking for this issue. It is not like it is a roundabout or some other specific road type that we can link. It is just a best practice.

2. Any recommendations for where in the Wiki this would best be placed?
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:19 pm

I was just playing with Live Map and at first from a very high view (United States) it would not start directions for a destination inside one of these "same connections" (SC). I then entered a location just beyond it and it mapped fine. I thought I had confirmed the problem, but when I re-entered the original failure address inside the SC it worked fine this time from the zoomed in view.

I tried multiple locations inside the SC on either side and it routed me fine. I closed the window and started over, and now I cannot recreate the original failure. So I can route to any address on either side of the SC with no problem.

The only thing I noticed so far, was the routing was not always optimal. Meaning if routed from one location on the SC to another on the SC, I might get routed the long way.

Use Live Map to route from:

1824 Tanglewood Way, Pleasanton, CA to 1864 Tanglewood Way, Pleasanton, CA
BadRouteSameConnection.png
BadRouteSameConnection.png (42.52 KiB) Viewed 1737 times


I wanted to confirm if we fixed the SC that the problem would no longer exist, so I found another road that could have been an SC, but along one road there is a court so the short segment actually has an intersection preventing the SC condition.

Use Live Map to route from:

1842 Brooktree Way, Pleasanton, CA to 1952 Brooktree Way, Pleasanton, CA
BadRouteNotSameConnection.png
BadRouteNotSameConnection.png (37.81 KiB) Viewed 1738 times

Same failure is happening to a set of segments that were never in an SC condition.

Therefore these two routing failures are not caused by a SC, but they should be fixed at some point.

So going back to the original Same Connection topic, what problem are they causing that requires us to "fix" these?
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby sketch » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:41 pm

^ Isn't it just routing the long way cause that's which way it thinks you're facing at the start of the route?
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby jasonh300 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:46 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:In The WME Toolbox thread, ncc1701v brought up a question around Same Connections:

OyyoDams wrote:The routing server doesn't like when 2 segments begin and end with same nodes. In this case, you should cut one of these segments with 1 more node. Source: Waze staff.


Here is an example of that condition.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... 07,5974627


That isn't an example of that condition. What OyyoDams is describing is a road that starts and ends on the same *node*...a closed loop.

What you linked to is a road that starts and ends on the same *segment*.
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:27 am

jasonh300 wrote:That isn't an example of that condition. What OyyoDams is describing is a road that starts and ends on the same *node*...a closed loop.

What you linked to is a road that starts and ends on the same *segment*.

I am talking about the feature that highlights Same Connection Segments in the Toolbox.
SameConnectionSegmentExample.png
SameConnectionSegmentExample.png (1.01 MiB) Viewed 1673 times

Permalink to above image.

If what I am showing was not the original topic, I stand corrected, but I then don't understand why the Toolbox is highlighting these instances. I really thought that was what OyyoDams was talking about here:
ncc1701v wrote:
OyyoDams wrote:In this case 2 segments have the same starting and ending nodes. That shouldn't happen.

I have never heard that, but it might be a language problem. Certainly a _single_ segment shouldn't start and end at the same node. If you look at http://www.waze.com/wiki/?title=Junctio ... uide#Loops the examples are two segments that "have the same start and ending nodes" (one at the t-junction and another opposite it). Please clarify.

Now I see the loop example Ncc1701v highlighted (which I do understand) results in the same situation as what I think the Toolbox script is highlighting for me. Is this only being highlighted for me? I turned off all other highlight scripts and still see it highlighted from the Toolbox.
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby sketch » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:50 am

That's something that definitely used to be an issue back in the Cartouche days, when the only way to connect segments was to "Connect in order of selection" -- there was no way the editor could know what exactly you meant by that. Other than that, though, all the examples I've seen so far appear to be "errors" only because Waze will give you the longer way around when it thinks you're pointing that direction. I would imagine if you started driving the other way then Waze would recalculate it the other way.
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby iainhouse » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:26 am

One "real" issue that this does highlight is two segments laid exactly on top of each other (probably by mistake). I've encountered a couple of very hard-to-diagnose problems that have been due to just this.

From memory, I thought that was the original reason for introducing this highlight.
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby no1ne » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:06 am

jasonh300 wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote:In The WME Toolbox thread, ncc1701v brought up a question around Same Connections:

OyyoDams wrote:The routing server doesn't like when 2 segments begin and end with same nodes. In this case, you should cut one of these segments with 1 more node. Source: Waze staff.


Here is an example of that condition.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... 07,5974627


That isn't an example of that condition. What OyyoDams is describing is a road that starts and ends on the same *node*...a closed loop.

What you linked to is a road that starts and ends on the same *segment*.


Nope when it involves
min 2 segments that starts and ends on same nodes => Same Connections segments
1 segment that start and end on same node => closed loop (note plural form or not)

As far as i remember it was about prety long segment that starts & ends on same nodes and it was brought up by waze staff as a source of possible routing issue ending with "could not find a route"
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby jasonh300 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:46 am

kentsmith9 wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:That isn't an example of that condition. What OyyoDams is describing is a road that starts and ends on the same *node*...a closed loop.

What you linked to is a road that starts and ends on the same *segment*.

I am talking about the feature that highlights Same Connection Segments in the Toolbox.
SameConnectionSegmentExample.png

Permalink to above image.


I've never used that script. I just know that JNF automatically fixes closed loop roads. And as someone else said, there was a problem with roads like the example you posted that was inherent to Cartouche. That problem went away with Papyrus and WME.
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:43 am

More info on this.

I opened a new topic in routing with what I found. It is all related to routing from and to the same single segment (no junctions between).

What I found in that thread does not appear to be caused by a Same Connection issue at all, but instead some other kind of bad routing issue.

Based on what I am hearing in this thread, the Toolbox is highlighting the possible overlay of two segments on each other. Any other indication of these Same Connections should be ignored at this point. Therefore I do not recommend any change to the Wiki unless I missed something.
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