"Same Connections" cause routing issues?

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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby Timbones » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:57 am

I've heard that small roads that connect to a main road at both ends can cause problems with routing. For example, a parking lot road that goes into a gas station and back out again. I.e. two segments connected by same two nodes.

I didn't believe it at first, but I've since seen a couple examples where it seems that the presence of a gas station 'loop' has disrupted routing a long the main road. The fix is to add an extra node into the middle of one of the segments.

I don't think this problem occurs all the time, but just when the neighbouring roads can provide an alternative route.

There may also be issues with routing to or from pairs of segments which are connected at both ends.

If this really is an issue, then we should collect some evidence and pass that on to Waze to fix. Correcting the map isn't a viable solution long term.

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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby sketch » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:50 am

That's something that definitely used to be an issue back in the Cartouche days, when the only way to connect segments was to "Connect in order of selection" -- there was no way the editor could know what exactly you meant by that. Other than that, though, all the examples I've seen so far appear to be "errors" only because Waze will give you the longer way around when it thinks you're pointing that direction. I would imagine if you started driving the other way then Waze would recalculate it the other way.
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby sketch » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:41 pm

^ Isn't it just routing the long way cause that's which way it thinks you're facing at the start of the route?
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby no1ne » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:06 am

jasonh300 wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote:In The WME Toolbox thread, ncc1701v brought up a question around Same Connections:

OyyoDams wrote:The routing server doesn't like when 2 segments begin and end with same nodes. In this case, you should cut one of these segments with 1 more node. Source: Waze staff.


Here is an example of that condition.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... 07,5974627


That isn't an example of that condition. What OyyoDams is describing is a road that starts and ends on the same *node*...a closed loop.

What you linked to is a road that starts and ends on the same *segment*.


Nope when it involves
min 2 segments that starts and ends on same nodes => Same Connections segments
1 segment that start and end on same node => closed loop (note plural form or not)

As far as i remember it was about prety long segment that starts & ends on same nodes and it was brought up by waze staff as a source of possible routing issue ending with "could not find a route"
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby ncc1701v » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:46 pm

Thanks for this thread. I'll turn on the highlighting in WME Toolbox. I won't "fix" such segments generally, but I'll be suspicious of them and add junctions when there is an inexplicable problem around them, just in case.
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:06 pm

CBenson wrote:Michelozzo in Italy raised an issue regarding the app not recalculating when he diverted on the road here.

According to the visual map, That road is running the wrong way. :shock:
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:43 am

More info on this.

I opened a new topic in routing with what I found. It is all related to routing from and to the same single segment (no junctions between).

What I found in that thread does not appear to be caused by a Same Connection issue at all, but instead some other kind of bad routing issue.

Based on what I am hearing in this thread, the Toolbox is highlighting the possible overlay of two segments on each other. Any other indication of these Same Connections should be ignored at this point. Therefore I do not recommend any change to the Wiki unless I missed something.
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:27 am

jasonh300 wrote:That isn't an example of that condition. What OyyoDams is describing is a road that starts and ends on the same *node*...a closed loop.

What you linked to is a road that starts and ends on the same *segment*.

I am talking about the feature that highlights Same Connection Segments in the Toolbox.
SameConnectionSegmentExample.png
SameConnectionSegmentExample.png (1.01 MiB) Viewed 1815 times

Permalink to above image.

If what I am showing was not the original topic, I stand corrected, but I then don't understand why the Toolbox is highlighting these instances. I really thought that was what OyyoDams was talking about here:
ncc1701v wrote:
OyyoDams wrote:In this case 2 segments have the same starting and ending nodes. That shouldn't happen.

I have never heard that, but it might be a language problem. Certainly a _single_ segment shouldn't start and end at the same node. If you look at http://www.waze.com/wiki/?title=Junctio ... uide#Loops the examples are two segments that "have the same start and ending nodes" (one at the t-junction and another opposite it). Please clarify.

Now I see the loop example Ncc1701v highlighted (which I do understand) results in the same situation as what I think the Toolbox script is highlighting for me. Is this only being highlighted for me? I turned off all other highlight scripts and still see it highlighted from the Toolbox.
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Re: "Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:19 pm

I was just playing with Live Map and at first from a very high view (United States) it would not start directions for a destination inside one of these "same connections" (SC). I then entered a location just beyond it and it mapped fine. I thought I had confirmed the problem, but when I re-entered the original failure address inside the SC it worked fine this time from the zoomed in view.

I tried multiple locations inside the SC on either side and it routed me fine. I closed the window and started over, and now I cannot recreate the original failure. So I can route to any address on either side of the SC with no problem.

The only thing I noticed so far, was the routing was not always optimal. Meaning if routed from one location on the SC to another on the SC, I might get routed the long way.

Use Live Map to route from:

1824 Tanglewood Way, Pleasanton, CA to 1864 Tanglewood Way, Pleasanton, CA
BadRouteSameConnection.png
BadRouteSameConnection.png (42.52 KiB) Viewed 1878 times


I wanted to confirm if we fixed the SC that the problem would no longer exist, so I found another road that could have been an SC, but along one road there is a court so the short segment actually has an intersection preventing the SC condition.

Use Live Map to route from:

1842 Brooktree Way, Pleasanton, CA to 1952 Brooktree Way, Pleasanton, CA
BadRouteNotSameConnection.png
BadRouteNotSameConnection.png (37.81 KiB) Viewed 1879 times

Same failure is happening to a set of segments that were never in an SC condition.

Therefore these two routing failures are not caused by a SC, but they should be fixed at some point.

So going back to the original Same Connection topic, what problem are they causing that requires us to "fix" these?
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"Same Connections" cause routing issues?

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:16 pm

In The WME Toolbox thread, ncc1701v brought up a question around Same Connections:

OyyoDams wrote:The routing server doesn't like when 2 segments begin and end with same nodes. In this case, you should cut one of these segments with 1 more node. Source: Waze staff.


Here is an example of that condition.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... 07,5974627

1. Can someone confirm they have seen (and still see) routing problems with this type of segment linkage?

If we have confirmed this is still a problem for routing, then we should have this clearly indicated in the Wiki. I am not sure where since most people will not be looking for this issue. It is not like it is a roundabout or some other specific road type that we can link. It is just a best practice.

2. Any recommendations for where in the Wiki this would best be placed?
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