Solid white lines

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Solid white lines

Postby sketch » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:51 am

Hello all,

I think we should add some language about crossing solid lines in the Junction Style Guide.

I thought it would be self-explanatory, but I've seen enough places where it's a problem to think it warrants specific discussion.

Depending on the state, crossing a solid white line is either illegal or discouraged.

Nevertheless, I have seen far too many times where less-careful editors have allowed just that:

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Even though it may be allowed in a state, if the turn is discouraged, then it shouldn't be something we are recommending that users do either.

Instead, the guide should encourage something like this instead:

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This would come in handy in the case of turnarounds and other at-grade connectors more than anything. I've seen update requests for this problem as well.
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Re: Solid white lines

Postby HandofMadness » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:15 am

My understanding is the that the straight across turn lane is the preferred. The driver is given plenty of warning that there's an upcoming turn. It is there responsibility to get in the correct lane for the turn at the appropriate time, not wait until the last second to get over.
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Re: Solid white lines

Postby sketch » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:26 am

shawndoc wrote:My understanding is the that the straight across turn lane is the preferred. The driver is given plenty of warning that there's an upcoming turn. It is there responsibility to get in the correct lane for the turn at the appropriate time, not wait until the last second to get over.

This has nothing to do with that. In the first example, traffic coming up the street segment in the lower portion of the image that needs to go west on Metro Pkwy will be told to take that U turn illegally.

In cases where this is not an issue, then the straight across is preferred. But in those cases, Waze isn't instructing the user to do something illegal.
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Re: Solid white lines

Postby McCracken808 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:32 am

Similarly, this junction has a solid white line prior to vehicles entering Farrington Hwy, yet drivers are all the time using the path across the line. I've moved the node well down the road to discourage, yet I'm getting a lot of MP's for "missing junction". I don't want to encourage drivers to cut across 2 lanes of traffic in a short distance. Is this to what you're referring?
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Re: Solid white lines

Postby sketch » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:36 am

McCracken808 wrote:Similarly, this junction has a solid white line prior to vehicles entering Farrington Hwy, yet drivers are all the time using the path across the line. I've moved the node well down the road to discourage, yet I'm getting a lot of MP's for "missing junction". I don't want to encourage drivers to cut across 2 lanes of traffic in a short distance. Is this to what you're referring?

Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It would be highly inadvisable (and probably illegal) for anyone to make that maneuver. Some people are gonna do it anyway, sure, but it's not gonna be cause Waze tells them to.
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Re: Solid white lines

Postby txemt » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:48 am

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=8&lat ... s=72261642

Something like this? I did this some time ago after consulting with 2 of the other editors in San Antonio. From the lower level of I-35, you can make only half of the exit ramp legally, but you're crossing one lane to get to the off ramp. MANY people make that 3 lane jump to get onto the off ramp for I-37. If I were a cop, I'd stand there with my ticket book and write tickets all day long for "crossing the solid white line." Waze instructs users who want to exit I-37 or US-281 to stay on the upper level before they split. It's a little complicated, but I finally got it nailed down and haven't had any issues with it.

Conversely, https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... s=48185630 this is set up to handle the turn lane (neve had an issue since designing this) and https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... s=74386124 are set up to also handle the turn lanes.
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Re: Solid white lines

Postby McCracken808 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:49 am

sketch wrote:Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It would be highly inadvisable (and probably illegal) for anyone to make that maneuver. Some people are gonna do it anyway, sure, but it's not gonna be cause Waze tells them to.


Not illegal, but discouraged.

BTW, this thread crashes my Tapatalk. Anyone else having a problem with this thread?
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Re: Solid white lines

Postby txemt » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:52 am

McCracken808 wrote:BTW, this thread crashes my Tapatalk. Anyone else having a problem with this thread?


Si
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Re: Solid white lines

Postby sketch » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:36 am

txemt wrote:https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=8&lat=29.4402&lon=-98.4841&layers=BFTFFTTTTFTTFTTTTTFTTTFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT&segments=72261642

Something like this? I did this some time ago after consulting with 2 of the other editors in San Antonio. From the lower level of I-35, you can make only half of the exit ramp legally, but you're crossing one lane to get to the off ramp. MANY people make that 3 lane jump to get onto the off ramp for I-37. If I were a cop, I'd stand there with my ticket book and write tickets all day long for "crossing the solid white line." Waze instructs users who want to exit I-37 or US-281 to stay on the upper level before they split. It's a little complicated, but I finally got it nailed down and haven't had any issues with it.

Yeah, that's a great example. We have something similar set up on I-110 in Baton Rouge. I also did something like that in Louisville or Columbus or something a couple weeks ago.

Conversely, https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... s=48185630 this is set up to handle the turn lane (neve had an issue since designing this) and https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... s=74386124 are set up to also handle the turn lanes.

Yep, same kind of thing. I do think that those turn lanes are too long -- the junction with the road they're leaving should be at the beginning of the solid white, IMO (don't want the instruction to come too early) -- but that's the same idea. (Also BTW, those at-grade connectors don't need to be named -- they'll pick up the name of the next named segment automatically.)
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Re: Solid white lines

Postby txemt » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:42 am

I couldn't remember that at the time and then I had a million things going on when I was doing that.
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