Driveways

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Re: Driveways

Postby WeeeZer14 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:53 pm

(warning, hack approaching) Split the mall entrance into two one-way segments. Road in named Bollinger Crossing, road out un-named.

I can't think of the exact situation right now, but I know I have come across places where I wish a road segment could have different names depending on your approach. (And I don't think I used the above hack -- I just accepted a less than ideal state.)

I wonder if the elusive junction object would be our solution?
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Re: Driveways

Postby tpainter » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:38 am

I thought that the previous consensus was that mapping drive throughs was an acceptable way to manage traffic reports and "missing" street errors.

Would more specific guidance be to only map them if an error shows up? Basically no premature mapping.
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:22 pm

WeeeZer14 wrote:(warning, hack approaching) Split the mall entrance into two one-way segments. Road in named Bollinger Crossing, road out un-named.

I can't think of the exact situation right now, but I know I have come across places where I wish a road segment could have different names depending on your approach. (And I don't think I used the above hack -- I just accepted a less than ideal state.)

I wonder if the elusive junction object would be our solution?

I thought of suggesting exactly that, but I've suggested enough hacks recently that I decided to play it cool. :?

CBenson wrote:I've seen it done, like here.

I'll also note where the road naming at the Annapolis Mall has evolved to. There is a named ring road, but the rest of the parking lot roads are unnamed. Thus, when entering the mall you are given instructions to turn at "Annapolis Mall." When in leaving the mall, you are given instruction to turn at "Annapolis Mall" to get to the ring road, but then to turn at the street you exit to to leave the ring road. I don't think anyone planned this, but it works well enough that no one has changed it recently.

That actually sounds pretty good...
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:02 pm

I'm talking about entering the mall and I think Riamus is talking first about exiting and then about entering.
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:42 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
sketch wrote:I disagree. If "Bollinger Crossing" is the name of the mall, and it's on a sign that looks like a street sign, the street should be named.

No, because it will say that also when navigating you out of the mall and that makes no sense. It certainly would be more confusing to be told to turn right and left four time at the "name of the mall" rather than the street name you are heading towards. What we need to have Waze do, rather than kludge the map, is nav instructions need to say "towards" instead of "at." And his has been discussed a lot before.

What Waze arguably needs to fix first is what happens when there are more navigation instructions but no more names. If I get off the interstate on a ramp that says "to Causeway Blvd S" and the next turn is into an unnamed parking lot, "to Causeway Blvd S" stays on the screen all the way to the end, or at least all the way until you're in the parking lot. Changing "at" to "towards" would fix it for all other instances of unnamed roads—ramps, at-grade connectors—leading to named roads, but it won't fix this, which is far more confusing. There must be an exception for the "take the next name" thing when there is no next name.

I don't see a bug filed in Bugzilla for either of these.
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:04 pm

I disagree. If "Bollinger Crossing" is the name of the mall, and it's on a sign that looks like a street sign, the street should be named.

If you think it's confusing that it would continue to say "Bollinger Crossing", surely it would be far more confusing if it continued to say "San Ramon Valley Blvd" instead, which is what would happen otherwise.
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:12 pm

Something does need to be done, though, about the way the client handles unnamed parking lot roads in the navigation instructions... I guess we won't be able to do anything about that until the client can see the difference between parking lot roads and streets.

Or does it have to? Does the routing server give the text of the instructions to the client, too?

Either way, I don't recall seeing anything about it on Bugzilla.
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:32 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:The discussion then rather turns around where @sketch and @kentsmith9 appear to go back on the previous advice and advocate for naming private roads, after which I chime in again about private roads and parking lots. If we follow the latest advice from sketch and kent, then we'd be naming every parking lot road too, something I completely disagree with.

Having the (current) correct stop-point for an address be on the private (unnamed) road or parking lot segment is not reason enough to start naming all of them. This goes against what we've been asked by Ehud: not to kludge the map. We do still need to, but when it comes to this, I see no point. Waze doesn't use internal addresses and stop-points now, and likely won't for quite some time. As has been mentioned on the addressing topic several times in other threads, Waze has to make the stop point more flexible first. Otherwise, their stop-point routing will fail to get people to the right locations.

Sorry, I must have misread or misinterpreted this or another related proposal as to require the match-naming of actually-unnamed driveways, essentially to kludge internal addresses into working. I was enforcing that without really thinking about it.

You're right I think, internal addresses should be implemented either fully or not at all.
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:49 pm

Riamus wrote:Really? Ok, then... as long as it's an official sign regardless of color. I've only ever seen official street signs that are green, but whatever is official is what I meant; not those signs you can buy at a store. :)

All street signs in New Orleans are white-on-blue, and some neighborhoods in Metairie and Kenner have their own white-on-black signs. You know, for what it's worth. :D
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:06 am

kentsmith9 wrote:
russblau wrote:Well, I can tell you for a fact that at least in some places (Sussex Co DE) there are some private roads that have a name and at least one address assigned to them, but they sometimes have no visible sign and look like a driveway.

I think we all agree there are exceptions to every rule. If the city recognizes the name on a road and other maps recognize the name on the road, then I say we name it. Our point was if someone decided to name their driveway "Joe Rd", that is not a recognized name and we should not map the name.

Plus if there's an address assigned to it, then it's an address, and we need the named road so we can put an address point on it. That's the top reason for the blanket admissibility of named "driveways" as I see it.
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