Driveways

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Re: Driveways

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:07 pm

sketch wrote:
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:The discussion then rather turns around where @sketch and @kentsmith9 appear to go back on the previous advice and advocate for naming private roads, after which I chime in again about private roads and parking lots. If we follow the latest advice from sketch and kent, then we'd be naming every parking lot road too, something I completely disagree with.

Having the (current) correct stop-point for an address be on the private (unnamed) road or parking lot segment is not reason enough to start naming all of them. This goes against what we've been asked by Ehud: not to kludge the map. We do still need to, but when it comes to this, I see no point. Waze doesn't use internal addresses and stop-points now, and likely won't for quite some time. As has been mentioned on the addressing topic several times in other threads, Waze has to make the stop point more flexible first. Otherwise, their stop-point routing will fail to get people to the right locations.

Sorry, I must have misread or misinterpreted this or another related proposal as to require the match-naming of actually-unnamed driveways, essentially to kludge internal addresses into working. I was enforcing that without really thinking about it.

You're right I think, internal addresses should be implemented either fully or not at all.

Alan, I reread my posts and I don't see where sketch and I proposed naming parking lot roads, so maybe there is a word choice problem I don't recognize. I definitely do not support naming PLot roads, so maybe we can add a bullet to our page that specifically calls that out.
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Re: Driveways

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:32 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
Riamus wrote:Really? Ok, then... as long as it's an official sign regardless of color.

Just for reference:
https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... s=52943864

I knew Oregon had some strange Ducks. :)
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Re: Driveways

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:37 am

I guess the other way of looking at that particular issue is if the roadway is named (and possibly has addresses associated), it should be mapped. Once mapped you can decide what kind of roadway that should be. This original topic was about WHEN to map driveways, so I propose we just make that first point up front to prevent people getting confused (as we were a bit here). :mrgreen:
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Re: Driveways

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:23 pm

russblau wrote:Well, I can tell you for a fact that at least in some places (Sussex Co DE) there are some private roads that have a name and at least one address assigned to them, but they sometimes have no visible sign and look like a driveway.

I think we all agree there are exceptions to every rule. If the city recognizes the name on a road and other maps recognize the name on the road, then I say we name it. Our point was if someone decided to name their driveway "Joe Rd", that is not a recognized name and we should not map the name.
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Re: Driveways

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:35 pm

mapcat wrote:
Riamus wrote:Ok. Though I'd still say that it would be a private road, which would be the same mapping as a driveway since we don't have a driveway road type. If someone pays to get their driveway named, it doesn't make it a public street.

IMO if it has a name, it is not a driveway, so if it is private, call it a private road, and if it is public, call it a street. Just not a driveway. ;)

I believe mapcat is saying that if a road has a name and is behind a gate or marked as private, it is not a driveway, but merely a private road. If it is named and publicly accessible it is not a driveway, but a street. However, since we don't have a driveway designator, I'm not sure this argument is important because it is either a street or private road.

However I would not recommend naming the "Private Road / Driveway" unless the name it is clearly visible to the driver as they approach the road in question.
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Re: Driveways

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:17 am

mapcat wrote:
Riamus wrote:I think you misread 2a3. It does say to map any driveway that is named. :)

Perhaps Kent was saying that if a driveway has a street name, it is a street, not a driveway.

Correct.

Riamus wrote:I'm also of the opinion that 2d can be questionable. It may be better to word it as "In general, do not map..." or something like that. For most cases, it probably shouldn't be mapped just to resolve a UR or MP, but there may be valid reasons to map it.

I think that would be a good alternate wording.

Riamus wrote:And I agree that 3a should not be done. Not only is it not correct, but it makes the map look bad. I've seen maps where every side street or driveway shown on it had the same name as the road. You couldn't really tell what parts were actually roads and which parts were driveways or which parts may be other roads with or without a name. It just creates a mess.

Based on mapcat's comments I think we three are pretty unanimous so far.
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Re: Driveways

Postby kentsmith9 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:59 pm

Here was the last summary that I saw and I think I have updated based on comments:

1. Nearly universal agreement ("Rules"?):
a. Map driveways that serve multiple distinct addresses or properties.
b. Do NOT map driveways less than 10 meters long.
c. Do NOT map driveways that serve a single address or property unless covered below.
c. Mapped driveways should be marked as "Private Road".

2. General agreement ("Guidelines"?)
a. Map driveways over 50 meters
a2. Map driveways if Waze might confuse being on that driveway for being on an adjacent street or vice-versa.
a3. Map a driveway if it has its own street name and at least one address is assigned to that name, regardless of length.
b. Map driveways if the address coordinates are likely to route to an adjacent road that is inaccessible to the address.
d. Do NOT map driveways just to resolve a UR or system generated error.
e. Do NOT map driveways just because they appear on other mapping services.
f. Do NOT delete a driveway that you think does not meet the standards without trying to contact the creator of the segment first.
g. Do NOT map a driveway just because there is no recommendation not to map it without coming to the forums to discuss your unique situation so we can get consensus.

3. No current consensus ("Things to consider"?)
a. Name the driveway according to the street to which it's attached.
b. For named driveways, add house numbers.


2a3. I disagree with this since a road with a name is a road and should be mapped since it is likely to have addresses (even one) that cannot otherwise be reached.

2d. I disagree with this as a general guideline. I think it would depend upon the situation, like Waze seeing a car driving off the road and then snapping to an adjacent road nearby giving a "roads not connected" MP.

2f. I added this based on thread concerns and I agree.

2g. I added this based on thread concerns and I agree.

3a. If a driveway has no name, it should not be named. Names are for roads that have a visible sign that drivers can see in order to know where to turn (excluding when a sign is knocked down of course). Ehud told us not to kludge things in the map just to get something to work because then we have to undo all that is incorrect once they fix it.
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Re: Driveways

Postby jondrush » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:01 pm

Yeah, I boofed that one. I should have removed the "or single driveway" as the exceptions are covered.

I chose 10 meters because that seems to be the magical limit below which Waze ignores/gets confused by a segment. I don't create 10 m segments anywhere.
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Re: Driveways

Postby jondrush » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:03 pm

1. Nearly universal agreement ("Rules"?):
a. Map driveways that serve multiple distinct addresses or properties.
b. Do NOT map driveways less than 10 meters long or that serve a single address or property.
c. Mapped driveways should be marked as "Private Road".

2. General agreement ("Guidelines"?)
a. Map driveways over 50 meters
a2. Map driveways if Waze might confuse being on that driveway for being on an adjacent street or vice-versa.
b. Map driveways if the address coordinates are likely to route to an adjacent road that is inaccessible to the address.
d. Do NOT map driveways just to resolve a UR or system generated error.
e. Do NOT map driveways just because they appear on other mapping services.

3. No current consensus ("Things to consider"?)
a. Name the driveway according to the street to which it's attached.
b. For named driveways, add house numbers.

I think the minimum should be 10m. I altered some other comments for grammar and split 2a into two topics to discuss separately.
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Re: Driveways

Postby JJLatWayz » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:18 pm

CBenson wrote:My 2 cents.


I second those thoughts without qualification.
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