Driveways

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Re: Driveways

Postby jdeyoung » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:07 pm

The need to have a driveway has more to do with the closest point to wherever a geo-coded address is indicated. Not having a driveway mapped leads to URs that indicate missing road/incorrect junction - since there's no point along the straight line for the client to know where to stop. Ideally it seems like the driveway would be best left "invisible" on the client unless you actually needed it. I don't so much care about clutter in WME, because, well, that's what the WME is there for. That said, I hate seeing the maze of clutter near major intersections with lots of parking lot roads on the client - especially when I'm just simply passing by.
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Re: Driveways

Postby jasonh300 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:30 pm

jdeyoung wrote:The need to have a driveway has more to do with the closest point to wherever a geo-coded address is indicated.


This is not a reason to have a driveway. The Waze internal addressing lets you assign both the location of the address (e.g. over the building), and a point on the road for an address (where the driveway meets the road).
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Re: Driveways

Postby HandofMadness » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:16 pm

jasonh300 wrote:
jdeyoung wrote:The need to have a driveway has more to do with the closest point to wherever a geo-coded address is indicated.


This is not a reason to have a driveway. The Waze internal addressing lets you assign both the location of the address (e.g. over the building), and a point on the road for an address (where the driveway meets the road).


If and when it ever goes live.
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Re: Driveways

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:30 pm

jasonh300 wrote:This is not a reason to have a driveway. The Waze internal addressing lets you assign both the location of the address (e.g. over the building), and a point on the road for an address (where the driveway meets the road).

And this isn't good enough. 1) We don't name unnamed private driveways, so 2) Waze doesn't let you set the stop point on any road other than the main named one. This is a must for remote driveways and store addresses within parking lots.
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Re: Driveways

Postby jasonh300 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:20 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:And this isn't good enough. 1) We don't name unnamed private driveways, so 2) Waze doesn't let you set the stop point on any road other than the main named one. This is a must for remote driveways and store addresses within parking lots.


Okay, so explain how this works. In the image below, assuming the address lookup is working, and the actual building for 118 is at point C, will Waze route you to point A, being the spot on the road that the address is assigned to, or will it still follow the driveway in to point B to get you as close as possible to point C?

If so, what's the reasoning behind even having a point A? If not, does the driveway provide any type of aid to navigation other than something to snap to when driving on the driveway, and when trying to leave?

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My response was *really* in reply to this:
jdeyoung wrote:since there's no point along the straight line for the client to know where to stop.

which is incorrect.

Point A will get you right to the intersection of the driveway whether it's there or not.

In this example here, unless I had driven that driveway, I never would've known it was there, and any attempt to draw in driveways like this is futile unless a Wazer is actually using them, and has put them in using the pave function.
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Re: Driveways

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:50 am

It stops on A and that's been my whole gripe with the stop point ever since it was introduced. I've posted multiple times about this deficiency and outright told Waze and showed them how their routing will get significantly worse if they turn on their internal addresses search without allowing the right flexibility with stop points.
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Re: Driveways

Postby petervdveen » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:05 am

Does the connected (white) road have another name?

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Re: Driveways

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:44 pm

petervdveen wrote:Does the connected (white) road have another name?

No, and it shouldn't. We've already discussed this kludgy workaround earlier in the thread.
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Re: Driveways

Postby petervdveen » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:37 pm

So, if I'm correct this street is nameless.

Can you point me to the post that shows what is the reason for that?
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Re: Driveways

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:02 pm

petervdveen wrote:So, if I'm correct this street is nameless.

Can you point me to the post that shows what is the reason for that?

Because it doesn't have a name.

viewtopic.php?p=545496#p545496 : kentsmith9 : "3a. If a driveway has no name, it should not be named. Names are for roads that have a visible sign that drivers can see in order to know where to turn (excluding when a sign is knocked down of course). Ehud told us not to kludge things in the map just to get something to work because then we have to undo all that is incorrect once they fix it."

viewtopic.php?p=547239#p547239: Riamus: "And I agree that 3a should not be done. Not only is it not correct, but it makes the map look bad. I've seen maps where every side street or driveway shown on it had the same name as the road. You couldn't really tell what parts were actually roads and which parts were driveways or which parts may be other roads with or without a name. It just creates a mess."

viewtopic.php?p=547538#p547538 : mapcat : "I agree with Kent's thoughts and recommendations."

viewtopic.php?p=548341#p548341 : kentsmith9 : "However I would not recommend naming the "Private Road / Driveway" unless the name it is clearly visible to the driver as they approach the road in question."


The discussion then rather turns around where @sketch and @kentsmith9 appear to go back on the previous advice and advocate for naming private roads, after which I chime in again about private roads and parking lots. If we follow the latest advice from sketch and kent, then we'd be naming every parking lot road too, something I completely disagree with.

Having the (current) correct stop-point for an address be on the private (unnamed) road or parking lot segment is not reason enough to start naming all of them. This goes against what we've been asked by Ehud: not to kludge the map. We do still need to, but when it comes to this, I see no point. Waze doesn't use internal addresses and stop-points now, and likely won't for quite some time. As has been mentioned on the addressing topic several times in other threads, Waze has to make the stop point more flexible first. Otherwise, their stop-point routing will fail to get people to the right locations.
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